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Lamentation Analysis on StarCraft 2 (Part 3)

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1 Lamentation Analysis on StarCraft 2 (Part 3) on Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:19 am

Well this is it, the big, dumb finale to this comma inducing, Michael Bay worthy story is upon us. I'm making an effort to keep this as short as possible considering how long the HotS post was, even leaving out certain points and just focus on what really irked me. I will say that overall the internal logic behind some of these missions was more cohesive, more so here than in the other two installments, I credit James Waugh taking over as lead writer, not that it means anything at this point.

Whispers of Oblivion:
-1. Zeratul's opening dialogue feels like a microcosm of everything that is wrong with StarCraft 2, I'm mean seriously when did this series turn into WarCraft in space?

-2. Zeratul explains that Duran is Narud, because apparently we're too stupid to figure it out otherwise.

-3. Kerrigan is acting like a complete bitch for no reason, despite Zeratul helping her in HotS and everything she knows about Amon at this point, this will come upvagain later.

-4. How does Zeratul know that Duran is dead, he just states that fact as if he was there to see it happen.

-5. On today's episode of Blizzard thinks your stupid. The Tal Darim opt for the Hot Topic fall look. Black metallic armor with spikes coming out everywhere and red colored lightsabers because after two games we still haven't figured out that the Tal Darim are the bad guys.

-6. Why are we suppose to be scared of the hybrids again? Zeratul and a handful of Protoss can kill a dozen of them during the last level, and lets not forget all the ones killed during HotS.

Legacy of the Void:

-1. Artanis was the Executor. This bothers me on so many levels.
A.) Blatant retcon is blatant.
2.) I feel jipped as a player because now Artanis is taking the credit for everything I did in StarCraft 1.
D.) The implications replaying StarCraft 1/Brood Wars, When Artanis is "talking" to the Executor is he just staring into a mirror, cause that's my new head cannon.

-2. The Artifact. I'll ask again, does it come with a juicer attachment. Once again it's the central plot device for this story and now has two new uses, it's a map and it can store consciousnesses. This thing has more versatility then a magic lamp, I wonder if I can microwave food with it too.

-3. Blizzard thinks your stupid - part 3. So Artanis is being possessed by Amon now, so of course his eyes, lightsaber and force lightning turns red, because evil.
I always thought the Psi Blades were just high tech weapons, wrist mounted lightsabers and the color was based on the Protoss faction, Blue for the Templar and green for Dark Templar.
But now the Psi Blades turn red, okay, maybe it has to do with the wielders source of psionic power, why red instead of green for the void I'll never now.
But later we see Artanis wielding Zeratul's blade and it's green, while his blade remains blue. What the literal fuck.

-4. Zeratul dies. Or rather the thing impersonating Zeratul that acts nothing like his established character dies. Hooray nobody cares. He also becomes one with the force.

-5. The Spear of Adun. Do I really need to say it? This "for emergency only" ship loaded with troops and a starforge was just sitting around and the conclave never thought to use it say when the Overmind invaded Aiur, or when they left for Shakuras? That wasn't an important enough time to activate the fucking thing. Fuck you Blizzard.

-6. Artanis feels bad for not listening to Zeratul. Why? Amon was going to control them whether or not he invaded Aiur.

-7. What happened to the crystals that are needed for the temple? No explanation as to why they're missing. Maybe Raynor stole them at some point to pay for gas for his ship. My guess is lazy writing.

-8. Artanis killed Zeratul. But he was under Amon's "influence" so nobody cares, does that plot line sound familiar?

-9. How did the Moebius security team grow into a large military force with a fleet of Battlecruisers? You know what might have helped against them? If Kerrigan didn't go on a kill crazy rampage in the last game.

-10. The Artifact can be used to affect Terrans now, add that to the list of features.

-11. Karax doesn't shut up about building photon cannons! This is a problem with all of StarCraft 2 but can't I play through a single mission without someone telling me to build something or warning me about an enemy attack and to prepare my defenses?, Karax shut the fuck up and let me play the fucking game!  

-12. Ma'lash and Alarak are Sith Lords. I wish I was kidding. I mean I loved how obvious it was but really the black armor, pale skin, red eyes with match lightsabers.

-13. Given what we know about the old Conclave, with the whole wanting to execute Tassadar for treason. Why did they decide to not destroy the Purifiers and just keep the ship, or just blown the whole project up if they thought it was so dangerous.

-14. How are there still High Templar units available? I thought you needed the Khala to have those units, anybody remember Brood Wars when Alderus took all the Khala warriors and you were stuck building only Dark Templar units? The Tal'Darim have High Templars too and they don't have the Khala either.

-15. The Xel'Naga are confirmed for Flying Spaghetti Monsters. Also they gods that created life in not only this universe but others too, in order to continue this convoluted life cycle. Anybody remember when StarCraft was a Scifi-Military Space Opera?

-16. Now during the Ulnar missions Kerrigan wanted to be polite and be helpful, told you I'd bring that up again.

I stopped writing notes at this point so lets just skip to the epilogue shall we.

Epilogue:

-1. The Scooby gang gets back together and enters (Hell/The Underworld/The Nether Realm of the Force/Outworld/Kingdom Hearts)

-2. Stukov tells Duran goodnight, because all anybody cares about is references to a better game that doesn't mean anything.

-3. Kerrigan turns into a Xel'Naga and by that I don't mean one of the Flying Spaghetti Monsters because Blizzard wants to keep her sexy, so she's a fire angel, because fuck it.

-4. Amon dies and nobody cares. He was a generic villain with no originality what so ever and we're glad to be rid of him.

-5. Raynor gets Kerrigan in the end because that's all StarCraft is now, a love story, and no it's not better than Twilight.

-6. Some people like to think that ending scene with Raynor, meant that he killed himself and Kerrigan came from the great beyond to pick him up, but if you really think that considering the tone and themes of StarCraft 2, then your not paying attention.
It feels just like the end of Return of the King when Frodo has to leave on the boat, there's no grand symbolism happening, it's all literal.

In Conclusion, StarCraft 2 feels like it was written by people who have never played StarCraft ever and yes That includes Metzen, In an interview before LotV came out he stated that his original idea for the series was space vampires, and it was thanks to the people he worked with at the time that StarCraft turned into what it became. So yes I feel Metzens gets too much credit for other peoples work. I done.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/11/6/9670176/starcraft-2-future-history-dlc-blizzard

"It was ... space vampires.

"The rest of the team was like, ‘I dunno man, space vampires are pretty wack,’" Metzen says. "‘We want to do something a little broader’." - Chris Metzen

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Any fans of TotalBiscuit out there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ri2Vc4ml14

The part which is relevant to this post starts at 1:34:45

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I'm assuming that Arch has his lore run videos already recorded? I'd love to discuss with the chat if I still have the chance.

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I'm just going to respond to your points using my own knowledge and opinions;

Whispers of Oblivion:
-1. Didn't bother me too much personally

-2. Agree with you.

-3. Yep, also agree.

-4. I don't exactly remember in what way he says it, so I'll not comment on that.

-5. Highly disagree. It went to show the brutal differences between the Tal'darim and the other Protoss, their different mindset, cultures. In comparison to the Templar, they lived on dark, horrible worlds specifically to starve themselves of light so that only the strongest would survive, which is reflected in their style.

-6. Don't remember what you've seen, but the Hybrids are insanely strong not only in gameplay but also in the cutscenes. Not to mention that they can destroy Zerg and Protoss simply by being near them.

Legacy of the Void:
-1. Wasn't a retcon. It was stated long ago. The other people you play in the Zerg and Terran Campaign are also actual people, by the way. Him talking to himself isn't true at all. He started appearing in BW, at which point we were a DIFFERENT PERSON.

-2. Agree. Overused.

-3. Yep, agreed.

-4. Don't see your problem, except for the dust thing. Bothered me, too.

-5. Not 'fuck you, Blizzard'. It's just SOOOO GODDAMN CONCLAVE to not use it. This can't even be explained in short. If you don't realize why they never used this tech, you'll have to take a big look at how the Protoss culture worked under the Conclave.

-6. He probably feels bad because he's lost a lot of his army to Zerg in addition to the dark influence, not to mention that he's failed the retaking of Aiur and caused further damage to it by even attempting to do so in the first place.

-7. My guess is it's explained somewhere, but as I don't know where yet, agreed, plothole.

-8. They didn't 'not care' because he was under his influence. At this point I'm beginning to wonder if you've fully understood what's shown in the game - Basically everyone HATED Zeratul, so why would they care?

-9. I don't know if you have an idea of how massive a Battlecruiser is, but they ARE a huge threat in itself. The fact that Raynor and Valerian had to still take full control of Mengsk's leftovers and had basically no time to establish themselves didn't help. Kerrigan's rampage doesn't even factor into this point.

-10. Don't remember what you mean, so I'll not comment on that.

-11. Honestly isn't all that annoying to me.

-12. Same point you already mentioned about the Ta'darim, so I don't have anything to add.

-13. Probably explained somewhere, but again, I don't know.

-14. That's not how it worked in BW at all. He didn't TAKE the 'Khala units'. He ordered HIS people to not help. That's completely different. You don't NEED the Khala to have psi-powers, obviously. Don't know where that idea comes from.

-15. Agree, I think it's stupid, too.

-16. At this point she's gotten rid of her rage by ripping Mengsk and his military apart, so she probably had a clear head to rethink her actions.

Epilogue:
-1. I don't see any negative as this is what StarCraft 2 was all about from the very beginning and we knew it.

-2. Again, you're nitpicking. This isn't even a negative, why would he NOT make a comment about the person that KILLED HIM?

-3. Retarded as fuck, I COMPLETELY agree!

-4. Yeah, really underwhelming, I agree.

-5. Considering that we don't exactly know what happened, I'd not completely agree. In case he comitted suicide, it's not a happy end at all. In any other case I agree.

-6. You're basically saying that we don't know what happened but you know what happened, which is great. Your comment about the ending of RotK doesn't play into this at all, especially because it's completely different - In RotK, the departure was literal in the story, but people are thinking about what it could symbolise in our real world and what the message could be. Here, it's quite literally unknown exactly what happens.

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I could handle most of the story...but...that ending...sigh. Kerrigan is human again because it's happy !!11 Rolling Eyes 1!11!

I'm going with the Jesse Cox theory that Jim is just insane and hallucinated all of SC2 in the bar. That makes more sense than this disaster.

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I partially agree with Evilknightz. I was basically praying that it wouldn't end in the cliché 'Hero gets the girl back'. I love Raynor and I don't actually want him to hurt himself because of it, but the ending felt so pulled out of their asses that I honestly got anger problems for the FIRST TIME in the whole series. I'm just going to go by the theory that he's actually killed himself, but believed he was with Kerrigan - That way, he atleast had a happy ending from his point of view.



Last edited by Nathrezim on Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : sentence structure)

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[quote="Nathrezim"]I'm just going to respond to your points using my own knowledge and opinions;

Whispers of Oblivion:
-1. Didn't bother me too much personally
It partly a personal issue and I know that, I generally don't enjoy fantasy settings, there are exceptions of course, but it's also a matter of expectations, were StarCraft 1 was clearly a Dark Sci-fi/Military Space Opera and then these random Fantasy elements started showing up in StarCraft 2 out of nowhere, with the prophecy, the artifact, Amon being a dark god, the Xel'Naga being Cthulhu monsters, and psionics being used as magic.
I mean imagine your watching Bladerunner and then it's revealed that Voldimort was behind the rouge replicates, I understand that people can overlook it but, it's too jarring for me, that it breaks my suspension of disbelief. It just doesn't feel like StarCraft anymore.
But my other problem is that there's no subtlety to this dialog, again it just feels like Blizzard doesn't believe that people will understand what's going on unless they flat out tell you constantly what's happening, and I find it insulting, especially when compared to StarCraft 1's writing.

-2. Agree with you.

-3. Yep, also agree.

-4. I don't exactly remember in what way he says it, so I'll not comment on that.
It's in the opening cutscene for the first prolog mission.
"These is only one being who knew that location, a creature known as Samir Duran or to the terrans... as Narud."
Again Thank you Blizzard, I would have never have guessed Narud and Duran were the same person unless Zeratul told me himself.


-5. Highly disagree. It went to show the brutal differences between the Tal'darim and the other Protoss, their different mindset, cultures. In comparison to the Templar, they lived on dark, horrible worlds specifically to starve themselves of light so that only the strongest would survive, which is reflected in their style.
"How does them wearing black spiky armor and weildig red lightsaber showcase that?, The Dark Templar live on Shakuras and that place doesn't look like Disneyland, yet when we see them in Brood Wars, they're just dressed in simple robes, besides that we already saw that they were more warrior like, in WoL and HotS, again I'm talking about subtly, what would have been better, having dialog and missions were the Tal'Darim are doing horrible things, say performing genocide against the Terrans and the Protoss, or having them show up dressed as Sith Lords? It especially doesn't make sense considering we've seen them in the previous two expansions and now they have this redesign with no explanation.

-6. Don't remember what you've seen, but the Hybrids are insanely strong not only in gameplay but also in the cutscenes. Not to mention that they can destroy Zerg and Protoss simply by being near them.
Well specifically in the these prolog missions, you fight and kill plenty of Hybrids, off the top of my head, I remember the HotS mission inside the skygeir labs, you have to kill a dozen Hybrids there, and of course you have to fight god knows how many more you have to kill in that campaign and in LotV, the point I'm trying to make is that I felt that the hybrids were built up to be this big threat, but I've killed so many of them at this point that they've become boring, in my opinion if you were going to have the hybrids, either make them a boss encounter or make it a way stronger unit and have very few show up in missions, hell the Void Trashers were more frightening then the hybrids ever were.

I'll continue after I get some breakfast.

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Nathrezim wrote:Legacy of the Void:
-1. Wasn't a retcon. It was stated long ago. The other people you play in the Zerg and Terran Campaign are also actual people, by the way. Him talking to himself isn't true at all. He started appearing in BW, at which point we were a DIFFERENT PERSON.
No it's a retcon, really.
"Artanis is a high templar and a military commander introduced in Brood War, where he is voiced by Paul Ainsley; the character is voiced by Patrick Seitz in StarCraft II. The character also appears in the novels Queen of Blades and Twilight. Later retcons have made Artanis the identity of the player character for the Protoss campaign in StarCraft."
Also consider this.

Why are there two Executors? Isn't that suppose to be the title for the supreme military commander?

Did Artanis get demoted to Praetor then?

If Artanis was the Executor in StarCraft 1 then how does this conversation make any sense?

Artanis: "Executor, I am Artanis. Though I have only recently been appointed Praetor, you can trust that I will uphold the honor and traditions of the Templar.

Aldaris: "We shall see."

Why would Aldaris say that when the last time we saw him he called the Executor and Tassadar and I quote "Brave sons of Aiur."

It makes no sense.


-2. Agree. Overused.

-3. Yep, agreed.

-4. Don't see your problem, except for the dust thing. Bothered me, too.

-5. Not 'fuck you, Blizzard'. It's just SOOOO GODDAMN CONCLAVE to not use it. This can't even be explained in short. If you don't realize why they never used this tech, you'll have to take a big look at how the Protoss culture worked under the Conclave.
Execpt that at the beginning of Brood War, when the Conclave basically doesn't exists, and they're still on Aiur with the Zerg overrunning the planet, and Aldaris's first line is that he would rather fight to the last warrior then flee, your saying he wouldn't have activated the Spear of Adun, with it's complement of 10,000 soldiers, before this? The Conclave was incredibly stubborn but they weren't stupid.

-6. He probably feels bad because he's lost a lot of his army to Zerg in addition to the dark influence, not to mention that he's failed the retaking of Aiur and caused further damage to it by even attempting to do so in the first place.
If he didn't invade Aiur, the soldiers that didn't die to the Zerg would have just fallen to Amon control and even if he listened to Zeratul to not invade, they would have fallen under Amons control, the result is the same, Invading Aiur just gave Amon less Protoss to control.

-7. My guess is it's explained somewhere, but as I don't know where yet, agreed, plothole.

-8. They didn't 'not care' because he was under his influence. At this point I'm beginning to wonder if you've fully understood what's shown in the game - Basically everyone HATED Zeratul, so why would they care?
Actually you seem to be the one who has misunderstood.
When I said nobody, I meant us the audience.
But since you brought it up, lets talk about that plot point, the Protoss hate Zeratul because he killed a Cerebrate, finding their only weakness, reading the Overmind's mind, which I might add didn't include Amon's involvement, and he's a traitor because the Zerg invaded Aiur, which is what they were planning to do from the beginning. How does that make sense?


-9. I don't know if you have an idea of how massive a Battlecruiser is, but they ARE a huge threat in itself. The fact that Raynor and Valerian had to still take full control of Mengsk's leftovers and had basically no time to establish themselves didn't help. Kerrigan's rampage doesn't even factor into this point.
I do understand how large a Battlecruiser is, and I sure they are very expensive to build, so how does Moebius build a fleet, staffed and equipped, after Kerrigan had destroyed the Dominions military infrastructure and as we've seen in the prolog missions, she's been fighting since the end of HotS?

-10. Don't remember what you mean, so I'll not comment on that.
The second Moebius mission, Brothers in Arms. Artanis and the Dominion try to stop Moebius from getting the artifact off world, and somehow they can use the artifact to mentally stun Raynor, Valerain and their forces.

-11. Honestly isn't all that annoying to me.

-12. Same point you already mentioned about the Ta'darim, so I don't have anything to add.

-13. Probably explained somewhere, but again, I don't know.
That still isn't an argument.

-14. That's not how it worked in BW at all. He didn't TAKE the 'Khala units'. He ordered HIS people to not help. That's completely different. You don't NEED the Khala to have psi-powers, obviously. Don't know where that idea comes from.

Raszagal:"However, we face a new threat within our own ranks. In your absence, Judicator Aldaris and an entire legion of Khalai survivors from Aiur have begun an open revolt against us."
Raszagal:"Even now, Aldaris and his loyalist Templar forces are preparing to attack our Citadel."
-"The Khala formed the foundation of future protoss psionic techniques, especially powerful abilities such as the psionic storm."
Now during this mission, you aren't allowed to build High Templar units, it is literally removed as an option from the Gateway, because we are fighting against them. so logically this game design choice supported that idea.
Isn't the whole point of the Dark Templar that they can't use the Khala powers because they cut their nerve cords. That's why they have to use the Void.


-15. Agree, I think it's stupid, too.

-16. At this point she's gotten rid of her rage by ripping Mengsk and his military apart, so she probably had a clear head to rethink her actions.
She got her revenge at the end of HotS, and at the beginning of WoO she starts off completely unreasonable, to Zeratul who helped her become more powerful.

Epilogue:
-1. I don't see any negative as this is what StarCraft 2 was all about from the very beginning and we knew it.
Yes this is what the story was building up to since WoL, and I hate it, so I brought it up in my personal analysis, but more than anything else the road story took to get here feels forced and contrived, again in my opinion.

-2. Again, you're nitpicking. This isn't even a negative, why would he NOT make a comment about the person that KILLED HIM?
Yes it makes sense within StarCraft 2's ludicrous story arch, my objection comes from bring Stukov back from the dead to begin with.


-3. Retarded as fuck, I COMPLETELY agree!

-4. Yeah, really underwhelming, I agree.

-5. Considering that we don't exactly know what happened, I'd not completely agree. In case he comitted suicide, it's not a happy end at all. In any other case I agree.

-6. You're basically saying that we don't know what happened but you know what happened, which is great. Your comment about the ending of RotK doesn't play into this at all, especially because it's completely different - In RotK, the departure was literal in the story, but people are thinking about what it could symbolise in our real world and what the message could be. Here, it's quite literally unknown exactly what happens.
Now your intentionally misreading what I've written, the point I was making is that given StarCraft 2 lack of any subtly, why would Blizzard put in an ending were Raynor commits suicide? It doesn't fit with the more light hearted fantasy tone that StarCraft 2 was taken in, If StarCraft 2's tone was as dark as Brood War, then maybe it would make sense.
It's the same reason why there isn't something like rape in Power Rangers, or murder in a romantic comedy movie.
Just like the end of HotS, when Kerrigan starts floating into the sky, it literally just happens.
When Frodo gets on the boat, yes we don't know what happens after he leaves, but he does get on the boat.
I would also like to point to the Mass Effect 3 Indoctrination Theory, just because some fans believe that Mass Effect 3 was all in Shepard's head, or that he just went insane by the end of it, it doesn't make it cannon.

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Execpt that at the beginning of Brood War, when the Conclave basically doesn't exists, and they're still on Aiur with the Zerg overrunning the planet, and Aldaris's first line is that he would rather fight to the last warrior then flee, your saying he wouldn't have activated the Spear of Adun, with it's complement of 10,000 soldiers, before this? The Conclave was incredibly stubborn but they weren't stupid.
I actually am. Like I said, I think this would fit the general mindset of the Conclave. At this point in time, while they definitly weren't 'stupid-stupid', they WERE 'stubborn-stupid'. The main idea of the Conclave was basically to keep everything the way it is which was also the reason they hated the Dark Templar.

If he didn't invade Aiur, the soldiers that didn't die to the Zerg would have just fallen to Amon control and even if he listened to Zeratul to not invade, they would have fallen under Amons control, the result is the same, Invading Aiur just gave Amon less Protoss to control.
Uhm, no, the result isn't the same. In one Szenario you've killed a good portion of your soldiers for nothing with no chance to get them back, in the others you haven't. If I have 10 soldiers and all of them get mindcontrolled, I can get them back when I lift the mindcontrol. If I have 10 soldiers and 3 die, I only have 7 soldiers I can get back later.

Actually you seem to be the one who has misunderstood.
When I said nobody, I meant us the audience.
But since you brought it up, lets talk about that plot point, the Protoss hate Zeratul because he killed a Cerebrate, finding their only weakness, reading the Overmind's mind, which I might add didn't include Amon's involvement, and he's a traitor because the Zerg invaded Aiur, which is what they were planning to do from the beginning. How does that make sense?
Only natural that I misunderstood because this was a pretty subjective argument - How was I supposed to know that you assumed nobody cared when I know myself and a lot of other people that DID actually care?
Second point: Personal experience and common sense should explain that often emotions win over reason - the new leader of the Dark Templar herself even mentions this to Artanis. In addition to that, the Zerg WANTED to attack Aiur, but they didn't know if it's location, which they gained through Zeratul. This is why many of the Protoss hate him. If you've lost the biggest part of your family to the Zerg in the attack that you think could only have been caused by this one person, you'd be angry, too. Oh, and he also killed Raszagal, which made many of the Dark Templar mad, but definitly not all of them.

I do understand how large a Battlecruiser is, and I sure they are very expensive to build, so how does Moebius build a fleet, staffed and equipped, after Kerrigan had destroyed the Dominions military infrastructure and as we've seen in the prolog missions, she's been fighting since the end of HotS?
Moebius is part of Narud's forces, which also have large production facilities all around the Sector, far away and independent from the Dominion.

That still isn't an argument.
Exactly. That was my point - I don't have anything to counter it.

Raszagal:"However, we face a new threat within our own ranks. In your absence, Judicator Aldaris and an entire legion of Khalai survivors from Aiur have begun an open revolt against us."
Raszagal:"Even now, Aldaris and his loyalist Templar forces are preparing to attack our Citadel."
-"The Khala formed the foundation of future protoss psionic techniques, especially powerful abilities such as the psionic storm."
Now during this mission, you aren't allowed to build High Templar units, it is literally removed as an option from the Gateway, because we are fighting against them. so logically this game design choice supported that idea.
Isn't the whole point of the Dark Templar that they can't use the Khala powers because they cut their nerve cords. That's why they have to use the Void.
The thing is that, while they may get STRONGER powers with the Khala, they don't actually need them. As we see with Terrans and Zerg, the Khala isn't needed to exhibit these abilities. The difference in the psi-powers between Templar and Dark Templar is that the DTs call on a different form of energy.

She got her revenge at the end of HotS, and at the beginning of WoO she starts off completely unreasonable, to Zeratul who helped her become more powerful.
Still getting rid of the last remnants of the enemy she was chasing back from Korhal. Like I already said, though, I agree that it was stupid to have her hostile at that point.

Yes it makes sense within StarCraft 2's ludicrous story arch, my objection comes from bring Stukov back from the dead to begin with.
Alright, I agree with that point.

the point I was making is that given StarCraft 2 lack of any subtly, why would Blizzard put in an ending were Raynor commits suicide? It doesn't fit with the more light hearted fantasy tone that StarCraft 2 was taken in, If StarCraft 2's tone was as dark as Brood War, then maybe it would make sense.
Yeah, I seem to be misunderstanding this. Like I said, I personally think it's pretty obvious they were going for an ending that was open to interpretation. SC2 being not as dark as Brood War is also not true in my opinion, I think this thought merely comes by the change in graphic style, nothing else. There were bad jokes and even dirty comments in SC1. Now you can of course argue that many more people die, but given that most of these were sidecharacters that noone had a real bond to, I don't see the deal about that. In comparison to that, SC2 actually showed all of the races dying. To me, this was a lot darker than any of the plot in SC1.

just because some fans believe that Mass Effect 3 was all in Shepard's head, or that he just went insane by the end of it, it doesn't make it cannon.
There's a difference, though. In ME3, the obvious conclusion WAS what is acutally cannon. In SC2, this isn't the case in the opinion of myself and a lot of other people.

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Nathrezim wrote:
I actually am. Like I said, I think this would fit the general mindset of the Conclave. At this point in time, while they definitly weren't 'stupid-stupid', they WERE 'stubborn-stupid'. The main idea of the Conclave was basically to keep everything the way it is which was also the reason they hated the Dark Templar.
Alright then answer me this.
What exactly was the Conclave being stubborn about?
Your argument is that the Conclave didn't activate the Spear of Adun, because they were being hard-headed, right? Please explain what they were being hard-headed about. Did the Conclave pass a law that the SoA could only be activated during a religious holiday?
Did there need to be a unanimous vote? Were they waiting for specific alignment of the stars?
All we are told about the SoA is that it's an Arc Ship, built to preserve the Protoss civilization.
With the Conclave gone and the Zerg Overrunning Aiur. Why would Aldaris fight to the death without activating the SoA?
To use an exmaple from StarCraft 1, After the Protoss try to kill the Cerebrate and fail, the Conclave orders the Executor to arrest Tassadar.
A hard-head and short sight move, no doubt about that, but we get a explanation of their viewpoint.
Aldaris:"We Judicator are called to look beyond such matters; to ensure the safety and future of our people. It is not the Zerg, but the rogue Tassadar, who represents the greatest threat to us now."
With that one line alone we learn two things.
The Conclave believe that the Zerg threat is under control and that they believe Tassadar is a more serious threat to their culture.
Which explains why they would rather hunt Tassadar rather then focus on fighting the Zerg.
However there is no explaination as to why the Conclave never used the SoA.


Uhm, no, the result isn't the same. In one Szenario you've killed a good portion of your soldiers for nothing with no chance to get them back, in the others you haven't. If I have 10 soldiers and all of them get mindcontrolled, I can get them back when I lift the mindcontrol. If I have 10 soldiers and 3 die, I only have 7 soldiers I can get back later.
Except Artanis has no reason to believe that he can free his people from Amon, unless he planned to risk his remaining forces cutting nerve cords, because he doesn't find out about using the artifact, again Deus Machina to the rescue, until way later in the story.

Only natural that I misunderstood because this was a pretty subjective argument - How was I supposed to know that you assumed nobody cared when I know myself and a lot of other people that DID actually care?
Second point: Personal experience and common sense should explain that often emotions win over reason - the new leader of the Dark Templar herself even mentions this to Artanis. In addition to that, the Zerg WANTED to attack Aiur, but they didn't know if it's location, which they gained through Zeratul. This is why many of the Protoss hate him. If you've lost the biggest part of your family to the Zerg in the attack that you think could only have been caused by this one person, you'd be angry, too. Oh, and he also killed Raszagal, which made many of the Dark Templar mad, but definitly not all of them.
Alright, fair enough, I didn't want this post to be a complete wall of text like my previous ones, so I didn't go into full detail like I usually do, and I apologize for that.
When I was writing this post I was being a bit more sarcastic then normal, and obviously there were people who did care, however you are doing the same thing I did, speaking for others, by saying that a lot of other people DID actually care.
If you would like me to speak only for myself, then I ask you do the same.
Personally, I feel that Zeratul in StarCraft 2 was such a bastardization of his original character that I despised him, and I'm glad to be rid of him.

As to your second point, I'm not arguing that there wouldn't be some Protoss who hated Zeratul, but that it would be a small minority.
Everything that we see about the Dark Templar their exile for Aiur, the condition of the world they live on and dialog from Zeratul suggest a society that values logic over emotion.
Zeratul:"Just as your Conclave did? They are dead now, Aldaris, dead because they allowed their pride to blind their reason. Only if we learn from their mistakes can we live to avenge them."
So killing Raszagal not only seemed like the right choice but the only choice.
And as for the Khalai Protoss, they didn't seem to have a problem with the Zeratul after Kerrigan killed Aldaris, even though he was working with her briefly during that time or for having to fight Aldaris's warriors, they did decide to stay on Shakuras after that incident, and given that the Dark Templar welcomed them to their world and later on risked their lives to continuously defend them from the Zerg, you'd think the their proud warrior race would be willing to look past something that amounts to an accident, which seemed to be the case in Brood War, until it seemingly comes out of nowhere in LotV.
But of course Vorazun would be upset, it was her mother that died after all, but as I've said she would be in the minority.


Moebius is part of Narud's forces, which also have large production facilities all around the Sector, far away and independent from the Dominion.
Which Kerrigan has been destorying since the end of HotS as we've been seeing in WoO.

That still isn't an argument.
Exactly. That was my point - I don't have anything to counter it.

The thing is that, while they may get STRONGER powers with the Khala, they don't actually need them. As we see with Terrans and Zerg, the Khala isn't needed to exhibit these abilities. The difference in the psi-powers between Templar and Dark Templar is that the DTs call on a different form of energy.
The problem I have with that arugment is that neither the Terrans or the Zerg show that level of psionic ability. At most they've used telepathy, but we've never see Terran ghost shooting lightning or mind controlling opponents and all of the Zergs abilities are biological in nature, the distinct difference that the Protoss have over the rest is the Khala itself.

Yeah, I seem to be misunderstanding this. Like I said, I personally think it's pretty obvious they were going for an ending that was open to interpretation. SC2 being not as dark as Brood War is also not true in my opinion, I think this thought merely comes by the change in graphic style, nothing else. There were bad jokes and even dirty comments in SC1. Now you can of course argue that many more people die, but given that most of these were sidecharacters that noone had a real bond to, I don't see the deal about that. In comparison to that, SC2 actually showed all of the races dying. To me, this was a lot darker than any of the plot in SC1.
I feel that StarCraft 2 has a tone problem, it jumps from trying to have dramatic scenes one minute to action movie shlock the next, that cutscene on Korhal was trying so hard to be this grim event, with the cliche operatic wailing in the background to that mind numbing line by Raynor about how even the Zerg didn't tear into the city like this, and the ash raining from the sky. It was Blizzard trying so hard to get an emotion response that it came across as completely disingenuous and hokey.

There's a difference, though. In ME3, the obvious conclusion WAS what is acutally cannon. In SC2, this isn't the case in the opinion of myself and a lot of other people.
If you and other people want to believe that last scene was symbolism for something else, whatever you think it may be, fine, more power to you. It's not as if it makes up for the rest of the problems with this series.

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However there is no explaination as to why the Conclave never used the SoA.
They make a point of showing that the Protoss wanted to abandon their old tech quite often during the series, because they want to leave the ages of their civil wars behind them. Most of their extremely powerful tech comes from this age and they went out of their way to never use it again to show that these wars are a thing of the past.

Except Artanis has no reason to believe that he can free his people from Amon, unless he planned to risk his remaining forces cutting nerve cords, because he doesn't find out about using the artifact, again Deus Machina to the rescue, until way later in the story.
He DID have a reason - The hope to defeat Amon. If they didn't believe they could achieve this, then they could've killed themselves from the start.

If you would like me to speak only for myself, then I ask you do the same.
Personally, I feel that Zeratul in StarCraft 2 was such a bastardization of his original character that I despised him, and I'm glad to be rid of him.
I wasn't generalizing, I was giving an example/explanation for why I misunderstood. Arche's run through LotV serves as an example of other people caring about Zeratul. I am in no way claiming that the MAJORITY of people felt bad, I was just referencing that I know a decent amount of people that did.

And as for the Khalai Protoss, they didn't seem to have a problem with the Zeratul after Kerrigan killed Aldaris, even though he was working with her briefly during that time or for having to fight Aldaris's warriors, they did decide to stay on Shakuras after that incident, and given that the Dark Templar welcomed them to their world and later on risked their lives to continuously defend them from the Zerg, you'd think the their proud warrior race would be willing to look past something that amounts to an accident, which seemed to be the case in Brood War, until it seemingly comes out of nowhere in LotV.
That is true. I can only theorize that this is the typical 'We've lost so often, so we need to find a reason for all of the bad things that happened to us!' which made them hate Zeratul in retrospect, but it might as well just be that they didn't remember what they did with it in SC1, yeah.

Which Kerrigan has been destorying since the end of HotS as we've been seeing in WoO.
Sure, but we also see that she has still not destroyed all of them.

The problem I have with that arugment is that neither the Terrans or the Zerg show that level of psionic ability. At most they've used telepathy, but we've never see Terran ghost shooting lightning or mind controlling opponents and all of the Zergs abilities are biological in nature, the distinct difference that the Protoss have over the rest is the Khala itself.
In the short stories and other media, Ghosts actually used their abilities to mindcontrol at least some Zerg multiple times, so they DO have these abilities. The reason they are not as powerful is most likely due to humans not being that far down this evolutionary path. Also, there ARE Ghosts that rank higher on the psi index than the average Protoss. These often have the power of telekinesis, for example Kerrigan and Nova. The reason we don't ever see them doing anything powerful is not that obvious, though. Either they never had the chance to show us their abilities, which I find highly unlikely, or they use different 'kinds' of psionic energies. I personally think the latter is the case, meaning that, yes, the Protoss might be stronger in creating pure energy, but the Zerg and Terrans are stronger in other forms of psionic powers. If this isn't the case, the psi index and plot point of Kerrigan being one of/the most powerful psionic being in the known Universe is simply wrong.

I feel that StarCraft 2 has a tone problem, it jumps from trying to have dramatic scenes one minute to action movie shlock the next, that cutscene on Korhal was trying so hard to be this grim event, with the cliche operatic wailing in the background to that mind numbing line by Raynor about how even the Zerg didn't tear into the city like this, and the ash raining from the sky. It was Blizzard trying so hard to get an emotion response that it came across as completely disingenuous and hokey.
I can somewhat agree on this. While there are multiple pretty dark points in SC2, it does also have a big light side, so you're right.

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[quote="Nathrezim"]
They make a point of showing that the Protoss wanted to abandon their old tech quite often during the series, because they want to leave the ages of their civil wars behind them. Most of their extremely powerful tech comes from this age and they went out of their way to never use it again to show that these wars are a thing of the past.
Wasn't the Age of Strife thousands of years ago at this point in the story?
Wouldn't the Protoss have developed and have been relying on their own tech by now?And if the Conclave never intended to use the Spear of Adun, then what about the 10,000 Protoss warriors that were being kept in stasis?
Was the Conclave going to just leave them there to rot for all eternity?

Also "The arkships (a.k.a. ark vessels) were a trio of massive protoss starships that were constructed by order of the Conclave long prior to the Great War, during the "Lost Age" of protoss history, when the Protoss Empire was at its height."

So it was the Conclave that had the ships built in the first place and didn't they only form after those events you mentioned?


He DID have a reason - The hope to defeat Amon. If they didn't believe they could achieve this, then they could've killed themselves from the start.
Oh, he had hope. Okay sure.

Sure, but we also see that she has still not destroyed all of them.
But she did leave enough of them alive to invade Korhal?

In the short stories and other media, Ghosts actually used their abilities to mindcontrol at least some Zerg multiple times, so they DO have these abilities. The reason they are not as powerful is most likely due to humans not being that far down this evolutionary path. Also, there ARE Ghosts that rank higher on the psi index than the average Protoss. These often have the power of telekinesis, for example Kerrigan and Nova. The reason we don't ever see them doing anything powerful is not that obvious, though. Either they never had the chance to show us their abilities, which I find highly unlikely, or they use different 'kinds' of psionic energies. I personally think the latter is the case, meaning that, yes, the Protoss might be stronger in creating pure energy, but the Zerg and Terrans are stronger in other forms of psionic powers. If this isn't the case, the psi index and plot point of Kerrigan being one of/the most powerful psionic being in the known Universe is simply wrong.
There are a number of inherent problems with expanded universe sources, it's happened before with say the Star Wars novels as well, the author doesn't all the details when it comes to the original material, so unless all the novelist for StarCraft have played the games, read the previous novels/comics/mangas/what-have-you, there is always going to be continuity errors, and the risk of the author misinterpreting any information that Blizzard gives them, or just simply the author bringing his own ideas that was never intended to be, period.

Aside from that, is it good story telling to use information from sources that the player may not have read, without any setup in the original game or an explanation in the new game series itself?

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So it was the Conclave that had the ships built in the first place and didn't they only form after those events you mentioned?
There was still a lot of change in the many, many years since the ships were built, though. If you want a different reason - Imagine your ancestors have built this gigantic tank thousands of years ago in case a 'threat to the whole race' would come. If you have this thing standing around as a tourist attraction for the whole time, you naturally don't even know how to activate it in the first place (which they also mentioned in LotV, when Artanis tells Kharax that he's supposed to get the ship running) and you have the whole burden of the decision on your shoulders; IS this actually a threat? You said it yourself, the Conclave under NO circumstances wanted to admit defeat. Activating the Spear would be like activating cheat codes in a mission and then claiming it was an easy ride from the start. They ARE stubborn like that.

Oh, he had hope. Okay sure.
This is a completely logical train of thought, so I don't see why there's the need to make fun of it.

But she did leave enough of them alive to invade Korhal?
The Universe is a big place.....

Aside from that, is it good story telling to use information from sources that the player may not have read, without any setup in the original game or an explanation in the new game series itself?
Not if it's an absolutely vital information that the audience NEEDS to know to completely understand the story. This isn't the case here, though.


I'd like to add something because I've just realized it after seeing Arche's SC1 Lorerun; We were talking about the mix of 'light' and 'dark' tones in SC2. Rewatching the cutscenes and looking at the briefings again showed me that this was also a thing in SC1 and BW.

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14 Re: Lamentation Analysis on StarCraft 2 (Part 3) on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:17 pm

Nathrezim wrote:
There was still a lot of change in the many, many years since the ships were built, though. If you want a different reason - Imagine your ancestors have built this gigantic tank thousands of years ago in case a 'threat to the whole race' would come. If you have this thing standing around as a tourist attraction for the whole time, you naturally don't even know how to activate it in the first place (which they also mentioned in LotV, when Artanis tells Kharax that he's supposed to get the ship running) and you have the whole burden of the decision on your shoulders; IS this actually a threat? You said it yourself, the Conclave under NO circumstances wanted to admit defeat. Activating the Spear would be like activating cheat codes in a mission and then claiming it was an easy ride from the start. They ARE stubborn like that.

Except that the Conclave is dead by the Start of Brood Wars, and the Protoss agree that they need to leave Aiur or they are all going to die, and in LotV when there are even fewer Protoss left over they still managed to activate the SoA.

This is a completely logical train of thought, so I don't see why there's the need to make fun of it.
I meant it less as making fun of you, but as I just give up, it makes no sense to me, but it does to you, so what else is there to say.

The Universe is a big place.....
Except we are talking about a sector inside the milky way galaxy not the universe.

Not if it's an absolutely vital information that the audience NEEDS to know to completely understand the story. This isn't the case here, though.
If we are suppose to accept that the Overmind wanted Kerrigan because she is now suppose to be the most power psionic of her time, that isn't important enough information?

I'd like to add something because I've just realized it after seeing Arche's SC1 Lorerun; We were talking about the mix of 'light' and 'dark' tones in SC2. Rewatching the cutscenes and looking at the briefings again showed me that this was also a thing in SC1 and BW.[/quote]
I'm not saying that StarCraft 1 didn't have light elements, few and far between, but that StarCraft 2 didn't do a good job of mixing them into the story,
-Were as Raynor in StarCraft 1 was more of a flawed character, he's been turned into John McClane.
-Kerrigan was a women who had suffered greatly and turn into a monster literally and figuratively, is now the chosen one that has to save the universe.
-Zeratul the wise and logic minded Protoss sage, is now a walking exposition spouting maniac who keeps showing up to remind us of the prophecy and how we must believe to stop to big bad.
-Mengsk the cunning, charismatic leader of men, is now a Joseph Stalin caricature making horrible ever stupid decision possible to allow other characters to make similarly asinine decisions.

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15 Re: Lamentation Analysis on StarCraft 2 (Part 3) on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:18 pm

Evilknightz wrote:I could handle most of the story...but...that ending...sigh. Kerrigan is human again because it's happy !!11 Rolling Eyes 1!11!

I'm going with the Jesse Cox theory that Jim is just insane and hallucinated all of SC2 in the bar. That makes more sense than this disaster.

I wish it were true.

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xcept that the Conclave is dead by the Start of Brood Wars, and the Protoss agree that they need to leave Aiur or they are all going to die, and in LotV when there are even fewer Protoss left over they still managed to activate the SoA.
And with them, temporarily all order and insight anyone could have into the old defensive systems until the next generation of commanders has 'read the manual'. At this point they also had to leave the planet in a hurry. In LotV, they literally didn't have any other choice. In addition to that it's highly likely that they went over the plan a few hundred times prior the the Invasion. I'd assume that the SoA has come up in the discussions at least once.

Except we are talking about a sector inside the milky way galaxy not the universe.
Narud has forces outside of that sector, too, though (disregarding the fact that the sector still is gigantic in size). He has literally been building his forces since humanity has arrived in the sector, so I don't see why he wouldn't have huge numbers of resources at hand.

If we are suppose to accept that the Overmind wanted Kerrigan because she is now suppose to be the most power psionic of her time, that isn't important enough information?
There's a distinction to be made, here. First of all, we get told by ingame sources that Kerrigan is the most powerful psi presence ever discovered by the terrans. That's not why the Overmind wanted her, though. We know for a fact that he needed SOMETHING to become the new leader of the Zerg to free them from Amons corruption. That's what Kerrigan was used for.

-Were as Raynor in StarCraft 1 was more of a flawed character, he's been turned into John McClane.
-Kerrigan was a women who had suffered greatly and turn into a monster literally and figuratively, is now the chosen one that has to save the universe.
-Zeratul the wise and logic minded Protoss sage, is now a walking exposition spouting maniac who keeps showing up to remind us of the prophecy and how we must believe to stop to big bad.
-Mengsk the cunning, charismatic leader of men, is now a Joseph Stalin caricature making horrible ever stupid decision possible to allow other characters to make similarly asinine decisions.
I don't know about Raynor, at the end of BW he pretty much was pretty damn close to what he is today, and today he even has more experience. Kerrigan, as mentioned before, was made the monster for the SOLE REASON of defeating Amon. Zeratul on the other hand spent years in solitude, on the run, while constantly feeling awful about the things he's done (which we know weren't bad, but that brings us back to the logic over emotions thing). Given that the prophecy WAS the only way to stop Amon and that it was the logical thing to follow it, in my opinion there's also no problem with that. Mengsk also had his fall coming since SC1 when he abandoned Kerrigan and lost Raynor and the Magistrate. I advise you to watch Arche's SC1 Lorerun again, it really helped me remember some of the relations myself. Also, he's made horrible decisions for a long time. He was ALWAYS a character driven by emotions.

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17 Re: Lamentation Analysis on StarCraft 2 (Part 3) on Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:45 am

And with them, temporarily all order and insight anyone could have into the old defensive systems until the next generation of commanders has 'read the manual'. At this point they also had to leave the planet in a hurry. In LotV, they literally didn't have any other choice. In addition to that it's highly likely that they went over the plan a few hundred times prior the the Invasion. I'd assume that the SoA has come up in the discussions at least once.

So your say that during Brood Wars, nobody knew how to use the Spear of Adun. The ship built by the conclave to ensure their races survival from extinction and absolutely nobody was around who knew who to use it. You do realize how that sounds right? But then a random Phase-smith is able to activate it without ever actually used it.

"I'm going to have this machine built, but I not going to have anyone learn how to use it, not even the people who built it will know how to use it, or leave any record behind to show others, even though it could mean the difference between life and death."


Narud has forces outside of that sector, too, though (disregarding the fact that the sector still is gigantic in size). He has literally been building his forces since humanity has arrived in the sector, so I don't see why he wouldn't have huge numbers of resources at hand.
When has that ever been established? And how exactly did Duran build these forces in the 250 years that the Terrans have been in the sector and keep all of it a secret? especially considering the amount of resources in terms of material and man power that he would need for such an undertaking. I don't buy it.

On a side note, is it just me, or am I the only one who's sick and tired of hearing that Duran was behind everything that happened in these games? To begin with I don't believe that's cannon, I love Arch but some of the things he's been theory crafting for this series just sounds like he's trying to jam every little detail to fit with StarCraft 2's cannon.
But if it was cannon, if Duran was behind everything from the start, it just sounds like some of the laziest, cliche and horrible writing I've run into in a long time.

Humor me, let's do a thought experiment, Well call it "How can we blame it on Duran."
The objective is to take every major event in StarCraft and link it to Duran.
- Duran was actually Khas, and taught the Protoss to use the Khala so that could Amon could use it against them later.
- Duran convinced the the old families to run the Confederacy into the ground.
- Duran manipulated the creation of the Kel-Morian Combine to start the guild wars.
- Duran tricked Mengsks father into rebelling against the Confederacy.
- Duran talked the old families into assassinating Mengsk's family and also planned the bombing of Korhal, while making sure Mengsk lived so he could become the leader of the sons of Korhal, so he could form the Dominion, so that Duran could later convince Mengsk into building Hybrids.
- He was also back on earth convincing the U.E.D. to attack the Korpulu sector.
- He's also Kerrigans biological father and Mengsks mother and Zeratuls great grandfather.
- You know that Hydralisk that killed Fenix? That was Duran.

Do you see what i'm talking about, just because you can come up with whatever theory you like to fit your personal head cannon, it doesn't make it true, nor does it make for good story-telling.


There's a distinction to be made, here. First of all, we get told by ingame sources that Kerrigan is the most powerful psi presence ever discovered by the terrans. That's not why the Overmind wanted her, though. We know for a fact that he needed SOMETHING to become the new leader of the Zerg to free them from Amons corruption. That's what Kerrigan was used for.
We get told only during StarCraft 2's story arc and specifically for the purpose of pushing that plotline, nowhere was any of that established in StarCraft 1, and all the "inconsistencies" that he pointed out for StarCraft 1, could easily be explain with information from within the game, for example.
- Why did the majority of the Swarm go to Tarsonis? On Antiga Prime Mengsk used one psi emitter to lure the Zerg, Duke himself said he had multiple emitters place on Tarsonis, more emitters = stronger signal.
- Why was the Overmind looking for a powerful Ghost? It's never stated that he is, all we're told is the the Zerg are attracted to psychic emanations, which makes sense because he's trying to find the Protoss, who are psychic beings.
- Why was Kerrigan infested? Maybe she was the only Ghost to survive the process.
- Why did the Overmind leave Kerrigan? He had just found out about the Dark Templar, what makes more sense? use his "greatest agent" to kill the Dark Templar the only Protoss that can ruin his plans, or use her against the Protoss on Aiur were even if he dies he can just come back. What was she doing in the last mission we see her in? Hunting Dark Templar.
- Why did the Overmind go to Aiur? To consume the Protoss. That was his goal from the beginning, if he needed the Protoss genetic material, why wouldn't he be the first to consume it. The other obvious reason if so that the player can defeat the Overmind, lets face it no story is perfect, StarCraft is still a video game, and you need a boss to beat, how would that happen if the Overmind didn't manifest itself, not everything in a story needs a lore reason to exists.


I don't know about Raynor, at the end of BW he pretty much was pretty damn close to what he is today, and today he even has more experience. Kerrigan, as mentioned before, was made the monster for the SOLE REASON of defeating Amon. Zeratul on the other hand spent years in solitude, on the run, while constantly feeling awful about the things he's done (which we know weren't bad, but that brings us back to the logic over emotions thing). Given that the prophecy WAS the only way to stop Amon and that it was the logical thing to follow it, in my opinion there's also no problem with that. Mengsk also had his fall coming since SC1 when he abandoned Kerrigan and lost Raynor and the Magistrate. I advise you to watch Arche's SC1 Lorerun again, it really helped me remember some of the relations myself. Also, he's made horrible decisions for a long time. He was ALWAYS a character driven by emotions.
Let me ask you this. When in StarCraft 2 has Raynor ever lost, or made a bad decision? The game tells us that he's a washed up, has been drunk, that's been on the run for the last 4 years, but none of that ever comes into play in the story, whatever Raynor does in WoL he's always gets his way, he never earns his victories and it feels incredibly lazy and even worse boring. I understand that this is my opinion, but that is my main issue with how the series has progress, StarCraft 2 feels like Blizzard focused solely on the game play, and slapped a story together just because that's what people expect from them. Even Arch has admitted that Blizzard has been rehashing the same plot in WarCraft and in Diablo, yet he still gives Blizzard a free pass, and I don't understand why. Especially since he's criticized games in the past for making the same mistakes.  

I have been watching the Lorerun, and I have no problem with Raynor in StarCraft 1, for the most part I agree with Arch's views, I love StarCraft 1, that's why I'm so upset with how StarCraft 2's story arc has been developed. StarCraft 2's story, to me personally, is on par with a Call of Duty single player campaign or a Micheal Bay movie, for all the reasons that I've written in not only this post, but my previous 2 as well and I just think StarCraft deserved better.

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I watched the first Brood Wars video for the lore run, and Arch talked about something that mirrored my thoughts on StarCraft 2 so perfectly that I need to make the comparison.

Arch talked at some length about the E.U. character, Jake Ramsey, and it was made very clear how he was without a doubt a Mary Sue character, and how the stories with him felt like bad fan-fiction.

How is Kerrigan any different at this point?

Let's look at Kerrigan progression from the perspective of the original games alone, before the novels and StarCraft 2.

-Kerrigan was just a Confederate Ghost that we learn have been experimented on, saved by Mengsk, used by him then left to die. Then she became infested, and in Brood Wars plotted her way to becoming the Queen of the Zerg.

Now lets examine her story, with the information from the novels and StarCraft 2.

-Kerrigan is the most powerful psychic character in the series, who was directly invovled with killing Mengsk's family, who was hand picked by the Overmind to replace him as the leader of the Swarm, because of a prophecy that centers around Kerrigan defeating Amon, a "Dark God", and being the savior of the galaxy. Then she ascends into being a Xel'Naga, and instead of being a tentacled alien creature like the rest of them, she turns into a fire angel, for lack of a better word.
And then at then end, she returns to be with Raynor and they live happily ever after.

Does anyone else see me point?

I couldn't have put it a better until now, StarCraft 2 feels like bad fan fiction, especially since the main focus ever since WoL has been how the writing team at Blizzard has turned Kerrigan into their very own Mary Sue.

Does anyone else see where I'm coming from with this? Anybody at all?

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Not sure what I can add to this other than '+1'. Can't say that I agree with absolutely everything you've said here, OP, but I've found the majority of the points presented reflect my own opinion on the matter.

XXX

Oh, and one more thing. Normally I'd be all for saying 'okay, you've liked / didn't like this, YMMV' and agreeing to disagree. The problem with that (IMHO) all-around reasonable approach, however, is that it sets bad precedent.

Let's assume that someone, somewhere, sometime in Blizzard is actually gauging the audience reaction instead of doing the usual big company thing of deciding what people like for them. Let's also assume that folks like myself or theshadowcouncil here - people that didn't agree with the direction Blizzard took with Starcraft 2's narrative - are just grumbling in our own little corners, trying not to ruin other people's fun by our complaining. What this hypothetical Blizzard personnel are going to see then?

They will see people being happy with the product. And they will report it as such. And the lazy approach to the storyline and characterization aspects of the game that has been slowly but surely overtaking Blizzard's products will continue.

(Let's be honest here, the copy-paste in the recent years is getting to the point that all Blizzard franchises are starting to blur together. And, I don't know about you folks, but I don't want any Diablo or WoW in my Starcraft. And vice-versa. They have started out markedly different in tone and in their approach to narrative and it was a mistake to homogenize them, in my opinion.)

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Takoita wrote:Not sure what I can add to this other than '+1'. Can't say that I agree with absolutely everything you've said here, OP, but I've found the majority of the points presented reflect my own opinion on the matter.

XXX

Oh, and one more thing. Normally I'd be all for saying 'okay, you've liked / didn't like this, YMMV' and agreeing to disagree. The problem with that (IMHO) all-around reasonable approach, however, is that it sets bad precedent.

Let's assume that someone, somewhere, sometime in Blizzard is actually gauging the audience reaction instead of doing the usual big company thing of deciding what people like for them. Let's also assume that folks like myself or theshadowcouncil here - people that didn't agree with the direction Blizzard took with Starcraft 2's narrative - are just grumbling in our own little corners, trying not to ruin other people's fun by our complaining. What this hypothetical Blizzard personnel are going to see then?

They will see people being happy with the product. And they will report it as such. And the lazy approach to the storyline and characterization aspects of the game that has been slowly but surely overtaking Blizzard's products will continue.

(Let's be honest here, the copy-paste in the recent years is getting to the point that all Blizzard franchises are starting to blur together. And, I don't know about you folks, but I don't want any Diablo or WoW in my Starcraft. And vice-versa. They have started out markedly different in tone and in their approach to narrative and it was a mistake to homogenize them, in my opinion.)
That is exactly right, and the sad thing is, I believe we're already at that point, with Blizzard focusing on Hearthstone, Overwatch, and Heros of the Storm, it just seems clear to me that their focus is now on gameplay alone rather then also having great stories, and I wish I could blame Activision but like you said this was along time coming.

But I suppose I've gone on long enough and people are tired of my complaining on the series, but god dam it, I've waited 10 years to see how StarCraft ends and I never thought it would have been like this.

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