Lorerunner's Forums

The Lorerunner's Forums

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Keywords

discord  WArs  game  Trek  political  Star  

Latest topics
» Nest of the Koth
Today at 3:01 am by The_Wanderer_In_Rags

» Star Trek TOS essential episodes?
Yesterday at 6:04 pm by NMdum1

» Battle of Scales
Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:31 pm by SilverDragonRed

» Eye of the Storm
Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:36 pm by SilverDragonRed

» Turn 8-1068
Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:03 am by FreelanceZero

» Turn 9-1068
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:55 pm by SilverDragonRed

» The end of a journey (Star Trek: Voyager Rumination)
Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:13 pm by NMdum1

» Is The Federation in Star Trek Fascist?
Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:59 pm by NMdum1

» House Creation
Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:10 pm by SilverDragonRed

You are not connected. Please login or register

Some thoughts about kotor 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

1 Some thoughts about kotor 2 on Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:14 am

Hi people, just finished the kotor 2 lorerun and I wanted to share my interpretation about Kreia´s motivation and ask what you think about it. To start with I dont think that Kreia wanted to kill the force, one could even argue that she is saving it but I´ll get into that later, in the end she wanted the exile to confront Malachor V, the place where all the people he/she bonded with died. As the way I see it the echoes that their deaths carried where so painful that the Exile, somehow, turned away from the force leaving a wound in it; this is described several times as something that never happened before and, as Kreia says in the end, nobody will ever lose his tides with the force as the exile did. I say this because I want to make a difference between Nihilus´s "wound" and the one that the exile carries, I think that Nihilus represents what would had happened to the exile if he/she hadn´t turned away from the force and somehow survived. And this is why the Exile is so central to the story, in a way he/she is really the battlefield in which this war is being played, he/she carries with him the open wound of an entire planet of death people and as long as he does not confront it this wound will never heal. The sith from the Trayus academy, led by Kreia, are implied to have learned what they know from the exile; I wouldnt be suprised if in the begining Kreia really wanted to take what she learned from the Exile and use it on a larger scale, sending the same echoes to the entire galaxy and leaving just a few survivors that would be free from the shackles of the force. But I think that her perspective changed after her last betrayal, when her students turned against her she casted away her title and asumed a new role.
And what role could that be? We know that she was once a stubborn jedi teacher that fought against the dogmatic view that Vrook and the others preached, so I tend to believe that the Exile was suppoused to be, as she describes it, a blank slate in which her teachings could be written. For her the exile is the antithesis of the force and she loves him/her for that, the fact that someone could walk away from it and become stronger for that reason is something that she thinks it should never be forgotten.
This is why she uses you, she wants you to become strong again, in her words a true victory is when you awake someone to your truth and this is why she was so upset when the jedi counsel freaked out so hard, she also wanted her revenge against her old students and, in the end, she wanted the exile to be able to heal; that is the reason she forces him to confront Atris, the jedi, the worlds he fought on and lastly Malachor using her old killing the force plan as a threat to getting him/her to go there. And when the exile finally supprass her final test then she really doesnt have anything else to prove, her apprentice is all that she wanted and now she can finally rest in peace.
A part of this is speculation but at any rate this is what I think, sorry for grammar and misspells, english is not my first language, I hope to hear your thoughts!

View user profile

2 Re: Some thoughts about kotor 2 on Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:32 am

It's an interesting idea but I think you are assigning a reasonable goal to an unreasonable person. Kreia is crazy. The thought of anyone or anything having any control over her whatsoever offends her so deeply that she sets out to kill the Force, to kill life. One of the many reasons she's drawn to the Exile, besides the obvious ability to kill the Force, is that they survived without it. The Exile proves her deepest wish--to be able to free herself completely from the Force. Nevermind that it was a once in a lifetime fluke.

I think on some level Kreia knows she's gone off the rails and wants her greatest student, her greatest triumph as you put it, to stop her. I've always interpreted the events after Dantooine as suicide by Exile.

View user profile

3 Re: Some thoughts about kotor 2 on Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:39 am

Considering how Kreia displays... enmity towards droids and maybe alien minds as well - things she describes as difficult to comprehend (and thus exert influence over, I assume) - and hatred towards something being capable of influencing her without her being able to do anything about it (or maybe even notice the fact at all), I think it would be safe to say Kreia has some issues with control. Overpoweringly irrational I'd say even. Obsessive.

And while that makes the story more... human than it otherwise could've been, when combined with the half-complete nature of the game, it also makes kind of impossible to find anything to push off of for the purposes of theorycrafting, IMHO.

My headcanon, if that's what you want to hear, is that the whole setup of the last scene stinks. Kreia is a little bit too insistent on provoking the Exile into killing her right there, right then and nothing else. After trying to enrage the player character, she tries to reason, she tries to apply peer pressure and assert her authority as a mentor (all those 'that's how it always been' arguments), then to present this murder as a mercy, appeal to pity.  

Yeah, she's far from the most rational person at this point, but I believe that if Kreia simply wanted to die, there were easier ways to do that.

So, in my ideal vision in my head, there would've been an option to realize that she is goading you into this (through either simply delaying the conversation until the realization happens and/or some mental stat requirement, and/or requiring to find some optional conversation(s) earlier in the game) and choose to just taze the old woman and drag her away from Malachor V as it is finally, utterly destroyed, thus ruining whatever trigger condition she was setting up.

There could be a number of ways to handle what happens next, I think.

The first and the most obvious (and perhaps lazy) being the 'all according to plan' one. Kreia is an adept manipulator of other people and - more importantly - is shown to be so repeatedly over the course of the story instead of it remaining an informed quality as it happens so often. So her pulling this just one more time over Exile's head would not be too implausible. Kreia may also have been completely truthful about her opinion on the force use teachings Malachor V has spawned (i.e. believing they had to be eradicated completely). And her hatred for most things of Jedi Order is hard to deny. Keeping these in mind, setting up a 'fork' - a situation in which either outcome would further her goals

(such as the Exile buying into this whole Dark Side thing, killing her in rage and dying alongside her or the Exile buying into this whole Jedi thing and agreeing to kill her because she said so or some other part of Jedi Order's teachings and also dying alongside her, thus erasing the last vestiges of force use schools of thought she believes should not survive, or refusing to do either and thus proving themselves as being worthy of continuing on)

- could be pulled off believably, in my opinion.

The other option I see here is for the Exile refusing to follow along with killing Kreia right then and there and resisting her attempts at forcing the issue by attacking or following through on her double suicide threat through mental link feedback being an option that was not, in fact, 'according to plan'. There is precedent for this during the course of the game, instances of the Exile doing something she did not forsee (which she, curiously enough, often tries to sweep under the rug), so maybe it could happen here as well?

Bao-Dur, as impenetrable his mind to her perception is, was already setting up his plan with reactivating the mass shadow generator, if for reasons that appear to have been cut from the game. So that could also figure into this approach to the ending somehow.

(Unless, of course, Kreia's inability to perceive anything from either him or the droids has more to do with whole chuncks of the story not making it into the game and that part of her character is just a stopgap to prevent us from seeing the fraying ends of incomplete plot threads.)

View user profile

4 Re: Some thoughts about kotor 2 on Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:12 pm

I'm definitely on board with the refusal idea. As it stands now she thanks you or is otherwise grateful if you try to talk her down before the fight and it would have been nice if they had let us take that idea to its natural conclusion. Even having her sacrifice herself to save the Exile on the way back to the Ebon Hawk would have been a more satisfying ending.

View user profile

View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum