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The Formation of the Echain Government

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1 The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:22 am

We have enough interest now, and I think this might take a long enough time, that I'm going to open the gates on this now.  What I want is for everyone interested in forming this new government to consider this forum theirs to discuss and debate.  You are also, of course, welcome to use the Discord chat (http://speedrun4fun.forumotion.com/t1139-we-started-a-discord-chatroom-for-the-community-it-s-free-and-safe?highlight=discord), the IRC chat on the main page (found either at the Home Page or if you prefer Here is a direct link), or even my Twitch Stream chat (https://www.twitch.tv/thelorerunner) to discuss this.  And I am always available for anyone who has any questions.

Let's lay some backstory on you first.

As mentioned in the Basic Info post, your once proud monastic nation was struggling under the domination and abuse of the Japanese Empire under a particularly cruel General, Yokoi Keiji, seeking to further his own station with the courts back home, and saw his appointment here as a form of exile.  All of this made for an angry and bitter man with control of a very powerful military, and he took it out on the Echainians regularly.  When the military was pulled out of Echain thanks to the United State's Pacific advances, that left him in a very vulnerable position with only a small, handpicked garrison to help maintain order.  Thoughts and efforts towards revolution had been stirring for years, and though it was uncoordinated, the time was so ripe for a strike that dozens of separate groups of revolutionaries hit the Japanese forces nearly simultaneously.  Yokoi Keiji was brutally murdered and strung up to much fanfare and accolades from the Echainian people.

This left a massive power vacuum.  Under the Japanese occupation, no true government had been present; all matters were controlled by Japanese officials, even at the city level.  As of now, the nation of Echain has no government.  At all.

This is where you, the players, step in.  As key members and leaders of the revolution, you are in the unenviable position of constructing a new government for your beloved nation from whole-cloth.  Good fortune.


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2 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:34 am

*ahem* well I guess I'll start this off then. First question, do we try to re-instate the previously existing monarchy or try to form a new type of government?

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3 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:46 am

Deciding on a royal leader would cause much unneeded debate, as we would need to select one leader from among us. Considering that many rebel groups are responsible for this revolution, each and everyone of them might want a shot at putting their leader on the throne. The population might also be unfavorable to the idea of having another supreme leader. It seems a lot easier to go for a democracy, which would undeniably be more just for the population as a whole.

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4 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:11 am

Zeiss wrote:Deciding on a royal leader would cause much unneeded debate, as we would need to select one leader from among us. Considering that many rebel groups are responsible for this revolution, each and everyone of them might want a shot at putting their leader on the throne. The population might also be unfavorable to the idea of having another supreme leader. It seems a lot easier to go for a democracy, which would undeniably be more just for the population as a whole.

Agreed, Zeiss: ousting one leader and replacing said leader with another person—whether by arbitrary means or otherwise—would likely result in more in-fighting between rival groups, which could potentially lead to further revolutions and counter-revolutions. Democracy, then, seems to be a safer alternative; that said, would it be better to have a representative democracy (disproportionate power is given to government representatives, as they have power and agency which allows them to up- or down-vote pieces of legislation in accordance to their own agenda) or a direct democracy (more power is given to the people, as the representatives in a governmental body propose and write legislation, and the people then vote without representatives interfering). In the case of representative democracy, should there be any laws about political affiliation? Should there be any disqualifying factors regarding the electability of an official (e.g. representatives cannot be active military members, representatives cannot be executives in businesses, representatives cannot be affiliated in clergy, etc.)? Also, are there potential alternatives to—or hybrids of—representative and direct democracies?

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5 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:16 am

Well I agree setting up a Democracy would be easier I think for us players deciding how to deal with revolutions etc as a dictatorship etc.. might be a lot of fun

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6 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:40 am

A representative democracy is fine by me. I think having one "Senate Hall" where all members of the government vote on legislation would be enough, and we could keep some institutions such as the police, the army, and the Law separate from the Senate.

Political parties would naturally form, and any of them could propose legislation and laws to vote for (usually, only the party with the most members can propose legislation, but that seems too complicated for a game where we have fun).

Really, what we would really need to do right now is create political parties and join one of them, or enroll in one of the public institutions; the police, the army, etc.

Unless others disagree and wish to propose another form of government instead? A representative democracy just seems the safe default choice. If we're not happy with how it turns out, we can change it later in the game.

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7 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:52 am

A democracy is a good place to start, but I have a few more questions about the democracy before we move past it and into the bureaucracies and subdivisions of the government.

For one, I assume there is something or will be something like a constitution that grounds the values of the government; after all, the legislators make laws for the citizens but need regulations that steer their approaches to governance. Do the lawmakers have special privileges, or can they be sent to prison if they are caught partaking in corrupt activity?

Aside from the laws that affect the actions of the legislators, we should also address some of the core, higher order political ideologies that will serve as the philosophical bedrock of the government. Should this democracy be strictly egalitarian, or should there be a classist system? Should the aristocracy or the corporations have more power than the working class, or should everyone have the same rights across the board? Should the government have authoritarian and fascistic leanings, or should the government have limited—or no—control over corporations, clergy, and other groups?

Please feel free to kick around some answers to these questions, and please let me know if there are some critical questions I’ve missed.

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8 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:43 am

Another question popped into my mind: should the laws and rights of the governed be centralized or should local governments have the agency to enforce their own laws? That is, should laws and rights be uniform across the entire country, or should local governments have the ability to write laws that may work against or entirely separate from the central government (e.g. should Versberg be able to write laws that apply within their borders but do not apply in, say, Plainsdale or Southport)?

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9 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:11 am



I found a video that outlines some of the basics when it comes to governing structures and power.
I think you guys should check it out.
I will go into more specifics after sleeping on it.

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10 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:40 am

I philosophically agree that our end goal should be representative democracy. I might have some concerns about how we choose to go about this, but I cannot be sure until I have my questions answered in the other thread Razz.

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11 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:20 am

I also agree we should form a representative democracy as not only would it be the funnest (lot's of debate and intrigue) from a game-play perspective it allows more involvement from players whereas a dictatorship would be rather one sided.

That being said we could set up a Constitutional Monarchy were we have a King/Queen with no power whatsoever just to placate the people and provide political stability.

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12 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:53 am

If we had wanted a representative democracy, we had merely need wait for the United States marines to land on our shores and liberate us from the Japanese. The people have spoken, and the people speak with as many voices as there are mouths, who are we men and women assembled to tell them that we represent their thoughts. Our population is not too large, nor too distant from one another to make the reactionary excuses of nations such as the United States even remotely believable. One person, One Vote. A direct democracy is the only government that can truly say it is run by the people, for the people.

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13 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:13 am

We could also do a theoretical constitutional monarchy, where you have a royal face as simply just that a face, holding little to no power in the face of the senate and the other governing bodies. That could make for some fun and interesting things. As for the levels of government well it looks like we are an island chain so perhaps like in the US a mayor for any of the large towns, but then an overall Governor of types per island, with the federal level holding some sort of Senate or legislative body. I think having something similar to the SW Galactic Republic Senate would be interesting, making a chancellor like the true executive lead, and of course having a court system of some type. Now as for direct or representative democracy. I think that honestly depends on the population. Like even in minute population countries they still tend to go representative just because of the hassle direct democracies cause, but I think either could be interesting.



Last edited by coolkid on Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total

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14 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:29 am

I would be for a Constitutional Monarchy, with the King/Queen as a “powerless” symbol figure Jet with the Parliament/Senate as the true power. I think this would spice it up but still give the players the maximal amount of possibilities.

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15 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:41 am

A proposal is hereby submitted by the delegate from the Echain People's Army of National Liberation for consideration by the delegates present at this first and most historic of our country's constitutional convention.

1. That it be recognised that the day on which the illegal occupying forces of Japan were removed from our country's land and waters, be celebrated as a day of national holiday.

2. That it be understood that the revolution to free us of the occupying force was conducted by many heroes from groups with vastly disparate ideologies, but a common goal, a free Echain.

3. That it be recognised that women played a vital role in the revolution, including often in frontline combat positions, and that as such regardless of other decisions made today, should have full and equal access to all civil, social and economic rights this august body chooses to grant to the citizens of Echain.

I hope I am not mistaken in thinking this is an uncontroversial set of principles, and that regardless of our other differences this proposal be accepted unanimously.

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16 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:39 am

The Chair recognizes the honorable WhiskyWhiskers from the Echain People's Army of National Liberation's motion.  Is there a second on the issues presented forth?


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17 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:42 am

I hereby second the motion by the Echain People's Army of National Liberation.

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19 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:54 am

I agree to the statements brought forth by Honorable WiskeyWhiskers.
Also I would have to disagree on the idea of a direct democracy on the fact that while a direct democracy is more representative, it becomes less effective the more people are involved and when your population reaches several million... I believe a representative democracy would be more effective in almost all areas

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21 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:13 am

WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:A proposal is hereby submitted by the delegate from the Echain People's Army of National Liberation for consideration by the delegates present at this first and most historic of our country's constitutional convention.

1. That it be recognised that the day on which the illegal occupying forces of Japan were removed from our country's land and waters, be celebrated as a day of national holiday.

2. That it be understood that the revolution to free us of the occupying force was conducted by many heroes from groups with vastly disparate ideologies, but a common goal, a free Echain.

3. That it be recognised that women played a vital role in the revolution, including often in frontline combat positions, and that as such regardless of other decisions made today, should have full and equal access to all civil, social and economic rights this august body chooses to grant to the citizens of Echain.

I hope I am not mistaken in thinking this is an uncontroversial set of principles, and that regardless of our other differences this proposal be accepted unanimously.

Aye, I'd wager this is something we all accept. 1 and 2 bind all of us, beyond any doubt. 3 is something that any lad 'ere should accept. Many o' our revolutionary regiments were 'eaded by women. I do be believin', any lass should be protected the same as men, and allowed to be servin' in our gov'ment (regardless o' what we decide 'ere).

So I do be formally seconding the motion

Though I'd like to be proposin' somethin' else as well

4: That it be recognised that Echlain is a multi-ethnic nation, and that all ethnicities are protected equally under the law. So long as they are considered a citizen of Echlain, they should have full and equal access to all civil, social and economic rights this august body chooses to grant to the citizens of Echain.

This do be includin' the Japanese immigrants. In Southport, they do be behavin' well, unlike ol' Yoko. They be 'onest folks, and we ought not be 'armin' 'em.

As to what the gov'ment itself should look, I do be sayin' that I do be fine so long as the gov'ment represents the people o' the island. I think I can speak for the people of Southport in that we do be sick o' 'avin' a single ruler makin' all the decisions. I don' know if the "Direct Democracy" thing will work, considerin' all 3 million Echain would have to vote every time we do somethin'. So long as we 'ave some sort of election system though, I'm fine.

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22 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:18 am

MegaZeroX wrote:
WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:A proposal is hereby submitted by the delegate from the Echain People's Army of National Liberation for consideration by the delegates present at this first and most historic of our country's constitutional convention.

1. That it be recognised that the day on which the illegal occupying forces of Japan were removed from our country's land and waters, be celebrated as a day of national holiday.

2. That it be understood that the revolution to free us of the occupying force was conducted by many heroes from groups with vastly disparate ideologies, but a common goal, a free Echain.

3. That it be recognised that women played a vital role in the revolution, including often in frontline combat positions, and that as such regardless of other decisions made today, should have full and equal access to all civil, social and economic rights this august body chooses to grant to the citizens of Echain.

I hope I am not mistaken in thinking this is an uncontroversial set of principles, and that regardless of our other differences this proposal be accepted unanimously.

Aye, I'd wager this is something we all accept. 1 and 2 bind all of us, beyond any doubt. 3 is something that any lad 'ere should accept. Many o' our revolutionary regiments were 'eaded by women. I do be believin', any lass should be protected the same as men, and allowed to be servin' in our gov'ment (regardless o' what we decide 'ere).

So I do be formally seconding the motion

Though I'd like to be proposin' somethin' else as well

4: That it be recognised that Echlain is a multi-ethnic nation, and that all ethnicities are protected equally under the law. So long as they are considered a citizen of Echlain, they should have full and equal access to all civil, social and economic rights this august body chooses to grant to the citizens of Echain.

This do be includin' the Japanese immigrants. In Southport, they do be behavin' well, unlike ol' Yoko. They be 'onest folks, and we ought not be 'armin' 'em.

As to what the gov'ment itself should look, I do be sayin' that I do be fine so long as the gov'ment represents the people o' the island. I think I can speak for the people of Southport in that we do be sick o' 'avin' a single ruler makin' all the decisions. I don' know if the "Direct Democracy" thing will work, considerin' all 3 million Echain would have to vote every time we do somethin'. So long as we 'ave some sort of election
system though, I'm fine.



I do concur with the honourable gentleman's 4th point. We did not free ourselves of an oppressive occupation only to throw those ethnic minorities who helped free our nation and who fought with courage and distinction under the bus.

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23 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:24 am

A formal vote is being added to a new thread on the issue of ratifying the four points presented and seconded by present officials. This vote can be found here. Please vote with all due haste.


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24 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:29 am

I thank those supporting the EPALN's motion deeply. The hardest fascist to overcome is the one inside all of us. Drink deep from the waters of revolution, sisters.

As for the impracticality of direct democracy, let me offer a compromise position. Directly democratic town councils, with a representative federal parliament. Each (independently drawn) electorate shall each week meet and discuss the issues of the day before electing a delegate from amongst themselves to represent them at the federal level. This delegate will then need to argue the consensus decision of his or her region's council with the other delegates until a simple majority (50%+1) can be found.

OOC: How I see this working is less active players can choose to be involved at the local level, they're put into a number of random groups by Arche with a couple of more involved players seeded in (maybe?). Everyone will then have to work together and compromise within the group separated from other council's discussion with different threads. Once there's a compromise, or an impasse they go to the 'federal' thread and there's a more active system of bargaining and influence.

The reason I like this idea is that the system won't just end up with two strong parties. Every decision is going to be hard fought and lurkers and new-comers can and will have an immediate result on decisions.

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25 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:35 am

While I wholeheartedly agree with delegate MegaZeroX's fourth proposal, I had wished to offer a hand of unity, a set of principles everyone could live by. However, I must admit perhaps I was too wary, why not reach for the most egalitarian future? Nationalism is the diseased ideology of those who oppressed us, let us not repeat their mistakes! A free Echain is a multicultural Echain!

e: I also denounce in the strongest terms all those participating who have presumed to have already been elected (or appointed as the case may be). Unless any members of the former king's privy council, or judges are in attendance today the honorifics, 'honour' and 'honourable' should be avoided.

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