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The Formation of the Echain Government

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101 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:01 pm

WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:
bingcrosby7 wrote:

I’d like to address the Whiskey’s articles on a point-by-point basis:

1. Yes, the monarch should be a figurehead, and, yes, if possible, the monarch should hail from the original bloodline; however, if we cannot find this heir, or if the heir is killed in transit back to the capitol or dies prematurely, your article implies that we will default to a system that has a president and vice president, which renders our governmental system a constitutional republic rather than a constitutional monarchy. If this is the case, it would be reasonable to simplify this article and cut out the monarchy entirely. This, however, would be a misstep, and would likely anger the people who have become accustomed to a monarchy. Instead, I propose we should allow the people to elect a king in the event that the original bloodline is wiped out, then separately elect a president to oversee the senatorial body.

2. To echo everyone else’s sentiment, once per week elections are unreasonable. Senatorial office should last longer than one week.

3. I see no trouble with your number three, and I agree that we should not make explicit laws about political parties—they should be private groups that operate within in a legislative body.

4. The original fourth article is necessary—local principalities should retain some rights to protect their regional interests.

1. Yes, if the original bloodline is not able to be found, a new bloodline should not be established. While I will bow to the will of the people regarding their love of our monarchy and tradition, it is patently absurd and anachronistic to create a new royal dynasty. We are a modern nation!

2. 6 months?

4. The original fourth article's intention is superseded by the use of town councils. That is even greater regional representation and far more democratic.

The strength of a democracy is directly tied to the people’s trust in those who govern them; if we do not adequately represent their interests, values, and traditions, we will lose their trust and therefore place ourselves at risk. If the station of monarch is purely symbolic, then what real world negative affect does such a station have? I argue that there are few to no negative repercussions to having a monarch if the constitution explicitly limits a monarch’s power. Maintaining a symbolic monarch for the people increases our standing in the eyes of the people, for they acknowledge that we are advancing their beliefs (and it appears that we do so to our detriment).

I alone cannot deliberate on the term limits; I would like to extend the topic of term limits to the entire body.

As long as the local governments have power parallel to the federal government’s legislative power, I will second the fourth article.

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102 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:01 pm

WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:
4. The original fourth article's intention is superseded by the use of town councils. That is even greater regional representation and far more democratic.

Aye, but it be also more centralized. If Southport and Eastport be 'avin' a trade conflict (as we had in the Provencal days) then we do no get to settle without all the major areas o' the continent getting to take part. It may be an issue we would want the gov'ners of each to deal with, rather than having everywhere from Plainsdale to Aberisk involved with this conflict.

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103 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:05 pm

The downside is the massive cost to taxpayers of hosting a royal family in the style of kings. The palace alone is large enough to be refurbished as a hospital.

Alright, I'll reinstate the original fourth article.

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104 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:08 pm

As a representative of Versbergian resistence I am most dissapointed by the narrow-minded centralism of you, my fellow revolutionaries.

How can we have a good government, if it is to be ruled from one island amongs many, how can we have true representation of the people, if all official in positions of executive and legislative power are a part of one body, all at the same place?
How can a petitioner from Waltens or Aberisk reach the hallowed halls of power easily, if he has to go to the Central City?

Truth is, any centralised form of governance will lead to overrepresentation of some, of those geographically close to this power. Especially for an island nation, such as ours. Especially for a country with historical instabilities and disparities, such as ours.

There are strenghts in unity, as there are in diversity. There are weaknesses in unity, as there are in diversity. Only a combination of the two can provide a solid systém for the future of Echain.

From these concerns comes my vision of what our government shall be, so that we can rule close to our subjects as to not be blinded to their woes, yet also rule together.

Notion KarbinCry-01a
Article 1 - General features
Echain should be ruled as a close federation with direct interaction between Federal and Local Governments.

There ought to be an Ombudsman on federal level.

Both Federal and Local governments shall be divided into three branches along the trias politica principle.

Article 2 - Inalienable Individual Rights
1. Right on ownership of property
2. Right for representation in government
3. Habeas corpus
4. Right to petition the ombudsman

Article 3 - Judiciary
There shall be three levels of courts.

Each Local Government is to have a Local Court.

On Federal level, there should be a Federal Court, used as a court of appeal and for crimes such as treason, sedition and any crimes commited by an elected official, military commander (civil crimes), and federal clerk.

Aside from these courts, there is to be a Constitutionary Court, used for disputes over constitutionality of both Local and Federal laws, novelizations and amendmendts. (for example, this protects against changes to non-democratic regimes on both levels of government)

Article 4 - Federal Executive
Federal executive should be either monarchical (with King as the HOG) or republican (with a President).

If the system is to be monarchical, then the King chooses his ministers, who have to be approved by the Assembly of the Kingdom.

If the system is to be republican, then the President is elected directly by the people in an election separate from any other (with the only exception being the first election, where either the President or the Representatives will gain only a partial term).

The Executive is to enforce laws and propose new laws, amendments and novelizations.

HOG is also the Commander-in-Chief.

Ministers are required to answer inquiry of every Representative during interpellation sessions.

Article 5 - Federal Legislature
Federal legislature shall be unicameral and called either Assembly of the Republic or Assembly of the Kingdom. (since this is how it is called in Portugal, ancient colonial ties and all)

Members of the Assembly each have one vote, and are called Representatives.

Procedings are lead by Chairman of the Assembly, or, in his absence, either the 1st or 2nd Vice-chairman, who are to be elected in the inaugural session. This pertains also to the agenda of each session.

Every month, there shall be an interpellation session, during which Ministers have to answer questions from the Representatives.

Half of the representatives is to be elected in a general election, which will be run thusly:
1. There will be no separate candidate lists (every Citizen will choose from the same roster).
2. Each party shall have a candidate list, with their candidates numbered (i.e. if a party gets enough votes for 3 Reps., the number 1, 2 and 3 get to be in the Assembly, and number 4 doesnt, if one of the above placed candidates doesnt forfeit)
3. Each voter can also choose a preference, by circling at max 3 candidates on the roster; if a candidate gets enough these preferential votes (relatively) he moves up a spot on the roster (for example form number 4 to number 3)
4. If there are too many non-partisan candidates, they shall be randomly split into reasonable rosters, with each individual roster (that is sent to the voters) with different numbering of candidates; however, their position on the roster is solely decided by their number of preferential votes.

The other half is to be filled with people form Local Governments.

Article 6 - Local Executive
The President or King nominates the Governor.

Governor chooses his or hers Deputies, and has to gain support of the Local Chambers (51% percent in the vote of confidence).

The Executive is to enforce ordinances and propose new ordinances, their amendments and novelizations.

Deputies are required to answer inquiry of every Senator during interpellation sessions.

Governors also make up the Chamber of Governors, and each of them is required to be a Representative (filling up a portion of the seats reserved for local representatives).

Article 7 - Local Legislature
Local legislatures have the power to pass Ordinances, which are limited by Laws (Laws say what an Ordinance can and cannot do).

Local legislatures also send representatives to the Assembly; each Regional Chamber fills up the same amount of seats.

Amount of the seats and the method for their allocation is up to the Regional Chambers, provided they do not break the Constitution (i.e. are democratic)

Appendixes
Chamber of Governors - calls for elections, has the power of veto over laws

Regions - 8 in total (see Geography of Echain), each with its own Regional Chamber.

Combination of roles - generally, every role can be combined, the only exceptions being that of Governor, Deputy, Prime minister/King and minister. But you can be, for example, Governor, Representative and Chairman of the Assembly.

Division of powers among Local and Federal levels - is to be negotiated.

Finances - this is very important. Taxes can be levied only with agreement of the Regional Assemblies - that provides a balance of power (since Ordinances are to be limited by Laws). Federal government can only raise extraordinary taxes in cases of natural disaster and defensive wars.

OOT
I am sorry for any grammatical errors, I dont really care to spellcheck, since I am on my phone.
Also, I hope I provide a different perspective. I live in a small 2nd world country (Czech republic), and I study political science. And, if you cant tell, Im big into multi-level governance Very Happy

EDIT: BTW, I started writing this when this forum had 3 pages Smile however, nothing changed much, still too much centralism and division between local and centralised power for my taste Wink



Last edited by KarbinCry on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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105 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:11 pm

WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:The cost to taxpayers of hosting a royal family in the style of kings.

Aye. I do be remeberin' complaints of the extravagence o' the Royals before the Japanese took over. For all the talk o' securin' the loyalty o' the people, I don't be rememberin' anyone likin' the royal income tax that only stuffed the royal pockets.

Proposal: While we recognize the importance of having a monarch, they must find there own ways of securing income. The tax money paid by the sovereign citizens of our state will not be used for the betterment of the royal family.

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106 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:14 pm

[quote="KarbinCry"]As a representative of Versbergian resistence I am most dissapointed by the narrow-minded centralism of you, my fellow revolutionaries.

How can we have a good government, if it is to be ruled from one island amongs many, how can we have true representation of the people, if all official in positions of executive and legislative power are a part of one body, all at the same place?
How can a petitioner from Waltens or Aberisk reach the hallowed halls of power easily, if he has to go to the Central City?

Truth is, any centralised form of governance will lead to overrepresentation of some, of those geographically close to this power. Especially for an island nation, such as ours. Especially for a country with historical instabilities and disparities, such as ours.



I do not believe that a nation as small as ours with a population of just 3 million needs to be as you say. The Central government will always be close to all the islands just because of how small we are.

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107 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:17 pm

I extend my warm thanks to the delegate from the Vesbergian resistance for reiterating the importance of a decentralised system of governance. The town councils are just that, power does not rest in the senate, but in the everyday person. Be they from the rural fields of Plainsgate or the slums of Lurem. The challenges these people face are vastly different despite being only mere tens of kilometres distant.

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108 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:19 pm

bradley2000 wrote:I do not believe that a nation as small as ours with a population of just 3 million needs to be as you say. The Central government will always be close to all the islands just because of how small we are.
[/quote]

It isnt just about the size of the population. Its also about geography.

If the government is centralised in City Central, then a Citizen of City Central has comparatively bigger influence on the government than a Citizen of Versberg, simply because he can directly observe, lobby and sue without having to buy a ticket on a boat every time he does so.

In effect, centralised rule will always be to the benefit of a centre and the rich (who do not care about geographical distances). Yes, some countries may be small enough to be entirely "the Center", but not Echain. For once, 3 million is a lot of people, and we are not some city-state, but geographical distance, coupled with population, multiplied by the fact we are split into several islands creates need for decentralisation.

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109 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:20 pm

KarbinCry wrote:
Constitution Proposal
snip

I do be approvin' of this. I think this is the best proposal I've be seen yet.

More formally, I second this.

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110 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:21 pm

KarbinCry wrote:As a representative of Versbergian resistence I am most dissapointed by the narrow-minded centralism of you, my fellow revolutionaries.

How can we have a good government, if it is to be ruled from one island amongs many, how can we have true representation of the people, if all official in positions of executive and legislative power are a part of one body, all at the same place?
How can a petitioner from Waltens or Aberisk reach the hallowed halls of power easily, if he has to go to the Central City?

Truth is, any centralised form of governance will lead to overrepresentation of some, of those geographically close to this power. Especially for an island nation, such as ours. Especially for a country with historical instabilities and disparities, such as ours.

There are strenghts in unity, as there are in diversity. There are weaknesses in unity, as there are in diversity. Only a combination of the two can provide a solid systém for the future of Echain.

From these concerns comes my vision of what our government shall be, so that we can rule close to our subjects as to not be blinded to their woes, yet also rule together.

Notion KarbinCry-01a
Article 1 - General features
Echain should be ruled as a close federation with direct interaction between Federal and Local Governments.

There ought to be an Ombudsman on federal level.

Both Federal and Local governments shall be divided into three branches along the trias politica principle.

Article 2 - Inalienable Individual Rights
1. Right on ownership of property
2. Right for representation in government
3. Habeas corpus
4. Right to petition the ombudsman

Article 3 - Judiciary
There shall be three levels of courts.

Each Local Government is to have a Local Court.

On Federal level, there should be a Federal Court, used as a court of appeal and for crimes such as treason, sedition and any crimes commited by an elected official, military commander (civil crimes), and federal clerk.

Aside from these courts, there is to be a Constitutionary Court, used for disputes over constitutionality of both Local and Federal laws, novelizations and amendmendts. (for example, this protects against changes to non-democratic regimes on both levels of government)

Article 4 - Federal Executive
Federal executive should be either monarchical (with King as the HOG) or republican (with a President).

If the system is to be monarchical, then the King chooses his ministers, who have to be approved by the Assembly of the Kingdom.

If the system is to be republican, then the President is elected directly by the people in an election separate from any other (with the only exception being the first election, where either the President or the Representatives will gain only a partial term).

The Executive is to enforce laws and propose new laws, amendments and novelizations.

HOG is also the Commander-in-Chief.

Ministers are required to answer inquiry of every Representative during interpellation sessions.

Article 5 - Federal Legislature
Federal legislature shall be unicameral and called either Assembly of the Republic or Assembly of the Kingdom. (since this is how it is called in Portugal, ancient colonial ties and all)

Members of the Assembly each have one vote, and are called Representatives.

Procedings are lead by Chairman of the Assembly, or, in his absence, either the 1st or 2nd Vice-chairman, who are to be elected in the inaugural session. This pertains also to the agenda of each session.

Every month, there shall be an interpellation session, during which Ministers have to answer questions from the Representatives.

Half of the representatives is to be elected in a general election, which will be run thusly:
1. There will be no separate candidate lists (every Citizen will choose from the same roster).
2. Each party shall have a candidate list, with their candidates numbered (i.e. if a party gets enough votes for 3 Reps., the number 1, 2 and 3 get to be in the Assembly, and number 4 doesnt, if one of the above placed candidates doesnt forfeit)
3. Each voter can also choose a preference, by circling at max 3 candidates on the roster; if a candidate gets enough these preferential votes (relatively) he moves up a spot on the roster (for example form number 4 to number 3)
4. If there are too many non-partisan candidates, they shall be randomly split into reasonable rosters, with each individual roster (that is sent to the voters) with different numbering of candidates; however, their position on the roster is solely decided by their number of preferential votes.

The other half is to be filled with people form Local Governments.

Article 6 - Local Executive
The President or King nominates the Governor.

Governor chooses his or hers Deputies, and has to gain support of the Local Chambers (51% percent in the vote of confidence).

The Executive is to enforce ordinances and propose new ordinances, their amendments and novelizations.

Deputies are required to answer inquiry of every Senator during interpellation sessions.

Governors also make up the Chamber of Governors, and each of them is required to be a Representative (filling up a portion of the seats reserved for local representatives).

Article 7 - Local Legislature
Local legislatures have the power to pass Ordinances, which are limited by Laws (Laws say what an Ordinance can and cannot do).

Local legislatures also send representatives to the Assembly; each Regional Chamber fills up the same amount of seats.

Amount of the seats and the method for their allocation is up to the Regional Chambers, provided they do not break the Constitution (i.e. are democratic)

Appendixes
Chamber of Governors - calls for elections, has the power of veto over laws

Regions - 8 in total (see Geography of Echain), each with its own Regional Chamber.

Combination of roles - generally, every role can be combined, the only exceptions being that of Governor, Deputy, Prime minister/King and minister. But you can be, for example, Governor, Representative and Chairman of the Assembly.

Division of powers among Local and Federal levels - is to be negotiated.

Finances - this is very important. Taxes can be levied only with agreement of the Regional Assemblies - that provides a balance of power (since Ordinances are to be limited by Laws). Federal government can only raise extraordinary taxes in cases of natural disaster and defensive wars.

OOT
I am sorry for any grammatical errors, I dont really care to spellcheck, since I am on my phone.
Also, I hope I provide a different perspective. I live in a small 2nd world country (Czech republic), and I study political science. And, if you cant tell, Im big into multi-level governance Very Happy

EDIT: BTW, I started writing this when this forum had 3 pages Smile however, nothing changed much, still too much centralism and division between local and centralised power for my taste Wink



KarbinCry,

You criticize us for being economically and politically centralist, but then you give enormous power to the president or king in article 4 (you give presidents and monarchs the power to propose and directly enforce laws (the former is a senatorial power, the latter is a local police and judge power for most offenses) and article 6 (that is, the president or monarch chooses the governors rather than the citizens), which centralizes power. I think your vision of a constitution is actually a bit more centralist and federalist than the original version. That is not to say, though, that such a constitution is without merit. I believe most of what is written, including explicit discussion of inalienable rights, should be advanced; the only change I would make is to limit the power of the executive figures.

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111 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:22 pm

WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:I extend my warm thanks to the delegate from the Vesbergian resistance for reiterating the importance of a decentralised system of governance. The town councils are just that, power does not rest in the senate, but in the everyday person. Be they from the rural fields of Plainsgate or the slums of Lurem. The challenges these people face are vastly different despite being only mere tens of kilometres distant.

Whilst I do aknowledge the Town Council systém, I cannot support it, since Town Council, as you proposed, if Im not mistaken, are to be separate from the Senate (as you propose it). This will create friction, and it is better to have all the levels of government intricatelly woven into each other, so that the systém promotes communication between regions and federal power.

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112 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:23 pm

I cast my vote regarding both proposals to bradley2000s.
I see WhiskeyWhiskers as far too radical and impractical for our great nation. As well I see parts of his proposal as a more or less open attack against our age old traditions of a monarchy.

Regarding the ideas of KarbinCry:
I find some of his ideas interesting and can even endorse a few.
Yet I advocate that most of the power within the Echain government has to be centralised to guaranty a stability within said government and so we will not be unable to full fill our duty to our nation and people just because a single region is unable to come to a consensus.

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113 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:23 pm

bradley2000 wrote:
I do not believe that a nation as small as ours with a population of just 3 million needs to be as you say. The Central government will always be close to all the islands just because of how small we are.

'Ave you ever wandered the streets of Southport, Aberisk, and Eastport? Different cultures. While we all do be Echains through and through, there are differences in our people, and many do be wishin' they have a level o' independence. While there is no deep hatred, the folk of different regions disagree on much, and we should be doin' our best to try to be accountin' for it and be allowin' 'em some level of auton'my.



Last edited by MegaZeroX on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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114 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:24 pm

KarbinCry wrote:
WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:I extend my warm thanks to the delegate from the Vesbergian resistance for reiterating the importance of a decentralised system of governance. The town councils are just that, power does not rest in the senate, but in the everyday person. Be they from the rural fields of Plainsgate or the slums of Lurem. The challenges these people face are vastly different despite being only mere tens of kilometres distant.

Whilst I do aknowledge the Town Council systém, I cannot support it, since Town Council, as you proposed, if Im not mistaken, are to be separate from the Senate (as you propose it). This will create friction, and it is better to have all the levels of government intricatelly woven into each other, so that the systém promotes communication between regions and federal power.

This is a misunderstanding. Each member of the senate is drawn directly from the town councils and are present for the discussions.

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115 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:25 pm

I humbly submit a request to the chair that the systems of government proposed by

1. Myself the honourable Bradley2000

2. The honourable WhiskeyWhiskers

3. The honourable KarbinCry

To a vote to end this bickering and put in place a stable government.

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116 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:26 pm

I'll just add my amendments and submit it again.

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117 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:27 pm

bradley2000 wrote:I humbly submit a request to the chair that the systems of government proposed by

1. Myself the honourable Bradley2000

2. The honourable WhiskeyWhiskers

3. The honourable KarbinCry

To a vote to end this bickering and put in place a stable government.

I request that the gentleman repost all three revised constitutions in one post so that we may all be as informed as possible before making such a critical decision.

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118 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:28 pm

I agree that we should put these proposals up to a vote.

*looks at the referee, the Lorerunner*

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119 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:28 pm

bingcrosby7 wrote:
KarbinCry,

You criticize us for being economically and politically centralist, but then you give enormous power to the president or king in article 4 (you give presidents and monarchs the power to propose and directly enforce laws (the former is a senatorial power, the latter is a local police and judge power for most offenses) and article 6 (that is, the president or monarch chooses the governors rather than the citizens), which centralizes power. I think your vision of a constitution is actually a bit more centralist and federalist than the original version. That is not to say, though, that such a constitution is without merit. I believe most of what is written, including explicit discussion of inalienable rights, should be advanced; the only change I would make is to limit the power of the executive figures.

First of all, monarch and governors and their ministers/deputies have to be approved by the Assembly / Regional Chamber. Secondly, laws still have to be approved by the Assembly (also, I forgot to write in that a sufficient number of Reps can propose laws of their own).

Lorinbas wrote:Regarding the ideas of KarbinCry:
I find some of his ideas interesting and can even endorse a few.
Yet I advocate that most of the power within the Echain government has to be centralised to guaranty a stability within said government and so we will not be unable to full fill our duty to our nation and people just because a single region is unable to come to a consensus.

I cannot envision a state of affairs when one region can block the government, if that block isnt legitimate. In other words, my systém provides stability by making tyranny of the central government imposible.

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120 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:28 pm

bingcrosby7 wrote:
bradley2000 wrote:I humbly submit a request to the chair that the systems of government proposed by

1. Myself the honourable Bradley2000

2. The honourable WhiskeyWhiskers

3. The honourable KarbinCry

To a vote to end this bickering and put in place a stable government.

I request that the gentleman repost all three revised constitutions in one post so that we may all be as informed as possible before making such a critical decision.


After WhiskeyWhiskers amends his proposal I shall submit all three.

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121 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:29 pm

bradley2000 wrote:
bingcrosby7 wrote:
bradley2000 wrote:I humbly submit a request to the chair that the systems of government proposed by

1. Myself the honourable Bradley2000

2. The honourable WhiskeyWhiskers

3. The honourable KarbinCry

To a vote to end this bickering and put in place a stable government.

I request that the gentleman repost all three revised constitutions in one post so that we may all be as informed as possible before making such a critical decision.


After WhiskeyWhiskers amends his proposal I shall submit all three.

I will aslo amend and correct my proposal shortly.

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122 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:29 pm

OOC: Will we be voting for them in a first past the post system, a ranked voting system, a concordat system, approval voting, or range voting?

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123 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:30 pm

In response to Karbincry, I must state the necessity of a strong central government. A strong federal government allows for the increased industrialization of our glorious nation that will allow us to increase our economy as well as our position on a global stage. If we lack a strong federal government, what is to stop a certain island from increasing in power and leaving our theoretical federation. The problem of drafts also occur if we find it necessary to go to war. What about conflicts between the independent islands? Who will step in as a mediator?

A fundamentally divided nation is a weak nation. We must be one. For example, look at the American Civil War between the union and the confederacy. The union was industrialized and connected in a federal level. They were able to draft men easily and fuel their war machine while the confederation was a loose confederation of agricultural states. They found it difficult to provide weapons and cloths to their soldiers while the government itself was falling apart. One state was even about to secede from the already seceding confederation after a mere 5 years of war.

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124 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:32 pm

Gentlemen,

Regardless of whose vision of the government we adopt, I argue that we should adopt KarbinCry's declaration of inalienable rights. We need to explicitly state what our constituents are entitled to as individuals.

If you an inalienable right is missing, please feel free to advance one.

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125 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:33 pm

bingcrosby7 wrote:Gentlemen,

Regardless of whose vision of the government we adopt, I argue that we should adopt KarbinCry's declaration of inalienable rights. We need to explicitly state what our constituents are entitled to as individuals.

If you an inalienable right is missing, please feel free to advance one.

I do be secondin' this.

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