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The Formation of the Echain Government

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51 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:18 pm

I second delegate bradley2000s proposal.
Regarding the request of Zeiss. This should be self-evident, as any action that would hinder the search for a true heir are, as far as I am concerned, to be considered high treason and a crime against our nation.

I request that the delegate grifenknight is to withdraw his statement for even if a possible heir is to resign his or her rightful position, said person is not to be harmed. I think enough Echain blood has been shed over the last few years.



Last edited by Lorinbas on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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52 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:20 pm

Lorinbas wrote:I second delegate bradley2000s proposal.
Regarding the request of Zeiss. This should be self-evident, as any action that would hinder the search for a true heir are, as far as I am concerned, to be considered high treason and a crime against our nation.

And what if it's found that it was one of the soldiers we shot to get us our freedom? Will that be considered an act of high treason? An utterly ridiculous notion.

If a search is to be conducted it should be conducted by the authorities once a formal government is in place. There is far too much to be gained at this point for frauds and schucksters. Why should we accept the results of any investigation carried out by Zeiss?



Last edited by WhiskeyWhiskers on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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To peoples Echain  provisional government I wish to challenge and confront a statement made by WhiskeyWhiskers.


"While I wholeheartedly agree with delegate MegaZeroX's fourth proposal, I had wished to offer a hand of unity, a set of principles everyone could live by. However, I must admit perhaps I was too wary, why not reach for the most egalitarian future? Nationalism is the diseased ideology of those who oppressed us, let us not repeat their mistakes! A free Echain is a multicultural Echain!"


This statement has no basis in fact we are 100% ethnically Echain. We are one people who have through our own blood have seen to our own liberation. It would be foolhardy to share such rewards with those who are not our own people.  

Future more it is insulting for those who fought for our liberalization of our country with a proud nationalist patriotism no matter the sacrifice to be referred to as diseased.


I ask and insist for WhiskeyWhiskers to apologize for his remarks to the citizens he has sullied that have sacrificed so much.



Last edited by Infernal on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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54 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:22 pm

I second bradley2000's proposal because it places us in the perfect situation in our current affairs with this "heir" as well as giving us power in the future.

I would just like to ask if anyone has rejections, proposals or modifications for my current economic plan of industrialization?

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55 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:30 pm

Regarding the proposal of the delegate grifenknight:
It is seconded by me as the industrialisation and the well being of our people should be our concern.

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56 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:31 pm

grifenknight wrote:I second bradley2000's proposal because it places us in the perfect situation in our current affairs with this "heir" as well as giving us power in the future.  

I would just like to ask if anyone has rejections, proposals or modifications for my current economic plan of industrialization?

I too second your proposal of an industrial powerhouse and national bank to revitalise our nation.

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57 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:36 pm

Infernal wrote:To peoples Echain  provisional government I wish to challenge and confront a statement made by WhiskeyWhiskers.


"While I wholeheartedly agree with delegate MegaZeroX's fourth proposal, I had wished to offer a hand of unity, a set of principles everyone could live by. However, I must admit perhaps I was too wary, why not reach for the most egalitarian future? Nationalism is the diseased ideology of those who oppressed us, let us not repeat their mistakes! A free Echain is a multicultural Echain!"


This statement has no basis in fact we are 100% ethnically Echain. We are one people who have through our own blood have seen to our own liberation. It would be foolhardy to share such rewards with those who are not our own people.  

Future more it insulting for those who fought for our liberalization of our country with a proud nationalist patriotism no matter the sacrifice to be referred to as diseased.


I ask and insist for WhiskeyWhiskers to apologize for his remarks to the citizens he has sullied that have sacrificed so much.

I reject this demand, and instead would demand of you that you join your fascist brothers in glorious Nippon. There is no place for bigotry in the new Echain.

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58 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:43 pm

I demand moderation from both the delegates WhiskeyWhiskers and Infernal.
What our nation needs in this time is unity not strive.
All factions that were present at our liberation are to be seen as equal and are not to be antagonist.

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59 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:47 pm

If a rejection of our former oppressor's ideology is radical, I'm not sure what we're all doing here. We might as well invite them back.

But in the interest of unity I would remind delegate Infernal that he is free to vote Nay against the motion.

http://speedrun4fun.forumotion.com/t1378-formal-vote-on-points-presented-and-seconded-by-fledgling-government

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60 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:52 pm

I just demand that all delegates should present themself with respect.

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61 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:56 pm

Infernal... I believe whiskey was notioning to the fact the we will be open to any and all future immigrants that consist of any ethnicity and that we will not discriminate them and/or place them below the originally echain populace.
I support whiskey in this statement since in order to follow my plans of an industrialized nation, we will require a higher population that will be more along the working class type.

I find it foolish to belive that nationalism is a disease as well as the fact that our glorious nation will not be open to those looking for a new hope and beginning. We must not fall to the extremeties that follow nationalism such as fascist pigs, but we also should not limit our nation to a close minded view of our land as only for echaen people.

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62 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:00 pm

I still dispute the importance of a monarch, symbolic or not. Nonetheless we seem to have come to an agreement of some kind of democracy. The faster we can come to a first decision the more effective and trustworthy we will seem to the eyes of the populace and eyes abroad.

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63 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:02 pm

Agreed. Would those arguing for a constitutional monarchy compromise and allow the hybrid direct/representative democracy I explained earlier to exist with a constitutional monarch, should one be found?

With the understanding that should a member of the royal family not be found, a non-hereditary position would replace the role of monarch?



Last edited by WhiskeyWhiskers on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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64 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:05 pm

WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Agreed. Would those arguing for a constitutional monarchy compromise and allow the hybrid direct/representative democracy I explained earlier to exist with a constitutional monarch, should one be found?

That is exactly what my proposal outlines.

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65 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:06 pm

I propose of starting a vote towards a government as stated by Bradley2000 since no major objections have been made against it. Not only does it grant a weak, but symbolic monarch that can guide and pull strings if necessary, but also establishes a representative democracy that grants the people the ability to voice their needs and wants.

I also must state the importance of finding and resolving this affair with the "heir" if exists or what not. It is necessary that he joins us or silenced for our government to survive and flourish.

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66 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:06 pm

Gentlemen,

I believe we are headed in the right direction, but I would like to delve into some of the finer print, if you would not mind. I can agree with the formation of a constitutional monarchy, as long as the division of power places its primary legislative power within the hands of the senatorial body, and that legislators be appointed by citizens rather than the monarchs. Bearing this in mind, I would like to more fully address two points that have already been made: one is legislative in nature and one is economic in nature.

First, I believe that smaller governing bodies benefit from super majority voting rather than simple majority voting. In simple majority ruling, the swing voter holds all the power; for instance, if our early senate contains five seats, one person holds all the power if the house is otherwise divided. However, if a super majority were necessary to advance a motion, four of the five would be required to up-vote. Super-majority rule in a small senate fosters unity and reason, whereas simple-majority rule in a small senate fosters corruption and partisanship. However, if our senatorial body grows to a reasonable size, simple majority rule may be necessary to govern, as simple majority rule within larger systems decrease gridlock.

Second, I believe that our economic system should be industrial in nature—advances in industrial technology as well as the exportation of goods and resources will increase our global standing and provide us with political currency; however, one of our main resources is rubber, and rubber causes grave environmental harm. Should we create restrictive or regulatory laws at a federal level to protect our citizens, flora, and fauna, or should we leave such legislation to the principalities themselves? Or, should we simply adopt a laissez-faire government that has no hand in economic regulation?

Lastly, to whom shall we entrust our national bank? I propose that we not allow a direct line between the senate and the monarch; the national bank does not belong to a single person or a single entity—and, as such, I propose we should entrust the bank to an independent third-party whose interests are disconnected from those in power.

Side note/OOC: Should we make names for our characters? Due to the fact that we can die and/or be assassinated, I think it’s important to establish characters separate from our login names, just so that we can roll another character on the same username if such an event arises. If you all think this is a good idea, we can put our names in our signatures, just to make things easier for everyone. Also, should make bios?

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67 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:07 pm

Seconded to grifenknight's motion



Last edited by Chaos_Ryder on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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68 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:08 pm

I still see the constitutional monarchy as the only way to guaranty the will of the people, jet to also stay true to our traditions. As bradley2000 outlined this is exact the point I am arguing for.

I still demand the withdrawal of grifenknights statement regarding a possible execution of a possible heir!

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69 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:10 pm

bradley2000 wrote:
WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Agreed. Would those arguing for a constitutional monarchy compromise and allow the hybrid direct/representative democracy I explained earlier to exist with a constitutional monarch, should one be found?

That is exactly what my proposal outlines.

I must strongly disagree that it does. I would ask that further consideration be made towards weekly election of delegates to the senate by way of consensus decision making.

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70 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:10 pm

Erm, on a less controversial topic...

We all do be agreein' that we be havin' some sorta elections, right? Well, some o' the eggheads be talkin' about a "range votin' system." In this system, be rank candidates or parties or whatever on some sorta scale (like 1 to 5). The weighted average determines who wins. The ranked system that was proposed is said to be bad 'cause o' "Arrow's Theorem" or somethin' o' the like. Apparently, with a ranked system, votin' for the candidate you like can be hurtin' them!

So I do be formally proposin'

Proposal: Whatever government system we decide on, it will have a ranked voting system, where voters choose there favorite candidate/political party by rating all options on a scale from 1 to 10.

Edit: OOC: I wouldn't mind tallying the votes if needed.



Last edited by MegaZeroX on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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71 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:13 pm

OOC: Lorerunner has already decided, for the sake of sanity, that our login names are our characters' name. If you don't like your current login name, you can change it in your profile.

I prefer simple majority. Super majority is too complicated for my taste in this political game.

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72 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:14 pm

MegaZeroX wrote:Erm, on a less controversial topic...

We all do be agreein' that we be havin' some sorta elections, right? Well, some o' the eggheads be talkin' about a "range votin' system." In this system, be rank candidates or parties or whatever on some sorta scale (like 1 to 5). The weighted average determines who wins. The ranked system that was proposed is said to be bad 'cause o' "Arrow's Theorem" or somethin' o' the like. Apparently, with a ranked system, votin' for the candidate you like can be hurtin' them!

So I do be formally proposin'

Proposal: Whatever government system we decide on, it will have a ranked voting system, where voters choose there favorite candidate/political party by rating all options on a scale from 1 to 10.

While I like the idea, with our lack of bureaucracy, counting ranked votes would be a lot of work for the current one member of our electoral bureau.

OOC: I think we should be a bit kinder to Arche.



Last edited by WhiskeyWhiskers on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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73 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:15 pm

I withdraw the idea of a possible execution of the heir, but what other options do we have if he/she disagrees or attempts to take power and return to the ways that restrict the voice of the people.

I also belive that we must grant the power of the national Bank to a third party as stated by bingcrosby. I also belive that we must establish our government before we decide the use of simple majority ruling or super majority.

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74 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:16 pm

Zeiss wrote:OOC: Lorerunner has already decided, for the sake of sanity, that our login names are our characters' name. If you don't like your current login name, you can change it in your profile.

I prefer simple majority. Super majority is too complicated for my taste in this political game.

OOC: Whoops, didn't see that; thanks for clearing that up for me, Zeiss.

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75 Re: The Formation of the Echain Government on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:22 pm

WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:

While I like the idea, with our lack of bureaucracy, counting ranked votes would be a lot of work for the current one member of our electoral bureau.

OOC: I think we should be a bit kinder to Arche.

I don' think it be worth denying the risk of votin' for a party and be havin' mean that the party you liked lost because o' your vote.

We could be hirin' people who's job it is to do this, in addition to the volunteers.

OOC: We could pass the tallying of votes off to a player who's role it will be to count votes, if it would present too much trouble to Arch.

Edit: I wouldn't mind doing it if it came down to it.



Last edited by MegaZeroX on Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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