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Committee for Democratic Constitution (Bradley2000, WhiskeyWhiskers, bingcrosby7, KarbinCry, grifinknight)

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WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:What about a hybrid system? Juries may only ever declare a person innocent. Matters where they declare guilty are left to the judgement of the judge or magistrate?

I agree with this and would also like to state I am opposed to the death penalty

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Also against the death penalty.

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WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:What about a hybrid system? Juries may only ever declare a person innocent. Matters where they declare guilty are left to the judgement of the judge or magistrate?

And who is to say a jury will not let a persuasive criminal go against staggering evidence of his guilt? While I do see it as a better option if we are to have general jury trial system, it does leave a lot to be desired.

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KarbinCry wrote:
bingcrosby7 wrote:
KarbinCry wrote:Current Issues
Judiciary - trial by jury, to what extent?

Important notes
Trial by jury as a solution for eminent domain has been agreed upon by 3 members (me, bingcrosby7 and bradley2000)

Shall we leave the guidelines for trial by jury to all cases that will result in the death penalty in addition to the condition as noted above?

1) I am against death penalty, as there will always be errors, and even if one man is killed unjustly, this measure is immoral.
2) If we are to have death penalty, these are the cases I want trial by jury the least, as other murder cases; they are the most emotional of them all. If any cases are to be decided by jury, let them be "boring" - patent infringement, property disputes (but with non-local juries).

Dear gentlemen,

I incorrectly assumed that there would be death sentence advocates; I apologize for such a generalization. I, too, am against the death penalty. So, allow me to revise my previous statement, and replace "death penalty" with "life sentence" or any other long-term sentence.

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Death Penalty
By 4 votes to 0 has been banned, maybe as a part of the Bill of Rights?

Judiciary
Only exhonoratory jury - 2 votes against 1 (for the time being)
In severe cases (life punishment) - 1 vote against 1 (fttb)

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KarbinCry wrote:Death Penalty
By 3 votes to 1 has been banned, maybe as a part of the Bill of Rights?

Judiciary
Only exhonoratory jury - 2 votes against 1 (for the time being)

Since all four of us agree, we make explicit the notion that the government cannot take the life of a man.

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bingcrosby7 wrote:
KarbinCry wrote:
bingcrosby7 wrote:
KarbinCry wrote:Current Issues
Judiciary - trial by jury, to what extent?

Important notes
Trial by jury as a solution for eminent domain has been agreed upon by 3 members (me, bingcrosby7 and bradley2000)

Shall we leave the guidelines for trial by jury to all cases that will result in the death penalty in addition to the condition as noted above?

1) I am against death penalty, as there will always be errors, and even if one man is killed unjustly, this measure is immoral.
2) If we are to have death penalty, these are the cases I want trial by jury the least, as other murder cases; they are the most emotional of them all. If any cases are to be decided by jury, let them be "boring" - patent infringement, property disputes (but with non-local juries).

Dear gentlemen,

I incorrectly assumed  that there would be death sentence advocates; I apologize for such a generalization. I, too, am against the death penalty. So, allow me to revise my previous statement, and replace "death penalty" with "life sentence" or any other long-term sentence.

Perhaps a life time of service to the people of Echain? I abhor the idea of slavery, however, a repayment of debts, limited to those of a criminal nature and not financial, seems favorable to allowing the violently criminal to roam free.

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Right 10. - In no case can a man be punished for any crime by death.

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KarbinCry wrote:Death Penalty
By 4 votes to 0 has been banned, maybe as a part of the Bill of Rights?

Judiciary
Only exhonoratory jury - 2 votes against 1 (for the time being)
In severe cases (life punishment) - 1 vote against 1 (fttb)

An exoneratory system is something I can stand behind. I vote yay. Since this is so, we can eliminate the in severe cases condition.

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bingcrosby7 wrote:
KarbinCry wrote:Death Penalty
By 4 votes to 0 has been banned, maybe as a part of the Bill of Rights?

Judiciary
Only exhonoratory jury - 2 votes against 1 (for the time being)
In severe cases (life punishment) - 1 vote against 1 (fttb)

An exoneratory system is something I can stand behind. I vote yay. Since this is so, we can eliminate the in severe cases condition.

I too vote Yay


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Death Penalty
Passed by 4 votes to 0 has been banned, maybe as a part of the Bill of Rights?

Judiciary
Passed - Only exhonoratory jury - 3 votes against 1
In severe cases (life punishment) - 1 vote against 1 (fttb)
Next issue: Limitations of jury system

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As I said earlier, I would like to limit jury trial to non-criminal cases, at the very least, to have charges of murder, manslaughter and bodily harm be decided without jury.

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KarbinCry wrote:As I said earlier, I would like to limit jury trial to non-criminal cases, at the very least, to have charges of murder, manslaughter and bodily harm be decided without jury.

I'd agree other than those for rebellion, treason etc. as well as murder of police officers and soldiers.



Last edited by WhiskeyWhiskers on Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Gentlemen,

I request a recess to initiate in approximately 20 minutes. Will the gentlemen present be willing to postpone further constitutional discussion for roughly 2.5 hours? As there will be an odd number of framers present, you can still break votes and, thus, my present is not an absolute necessity. Please let me know if a recess is desirable or possible.

OOC: I have to commute for a while and get settled in at work, but I will have several hours to go back to framing the constitution once I am settled in.

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bingcrosby7 wrote:Gentlemen,

I request a recess to initiate in approximately 20 minutes. Will the gentlemen present be willing to postpone further constitutional discussion for roughly 2.5 hours? As there will be an odd number of framers present, you can still break votes and, thus, my present is not an absolute necessity. Please let me know if a recess is desirable or possible.

OOC: I have to commute for a while and get settled in at work, but I will have several hours to go back to framing the constitution once I am settled in.

I am ok with this. Could you please notify us when that time to go has come about?.

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WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:
KarbinCry wrote:As I said earlier, I would like to limit jury trial to non-criminal cases, at the very least, to have charges of murder, manslaughter and bodily harm be decided without jury.

I'd agree other than those for rebellion, treason etc. as well as murder of police officers and soldiers.

Rebellion, treason, sedition... are cases where I can agree with exhonoratory jury.

bingcrosby7 wrote:Gentlemen,

I request a recess to initiate in approximately 20 minutes. Will the gentlemen present be willing to postpone further constitutional discussion for roughly 2.5 hours? As there will be an odd number of framers present, you can still break votes and, thus, my present is not an absolute necessity. Please let me know if a recess is desirable or possible.

OOC: I have to commute for a while and get settled in at work, but I will have several hours to go back to framing the constitution once I am settled in.

OOC: Sadly, for me, its 11 p.m. however, if a recess is agreed upon by others, I have nothing against it, my only job is studying and I am too smart to study Wink

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bradley2000 wrote:
bingcrosby7 wrote:Gentlemen,

I request a recess to initiate in approximately 20 minutes. Will the gentlemen present be willing to postpone further constitutional discussion for roughly 2.5 hours? As there will be an odd number of framers present, you can still break votes and, thus, my present is not an absolute necessity. Please let me know if a recess is desirable or possible.

OOC: I have to commute for a while and get settled in at work, but I will have several hours to go back to framing the constitution once I am settled in.

I am ok with this. Could you please notify us when that time to go has come about?.

I request to adjourn by no later than 2:15PM PST. I will do my best to return to the forum by 5PM PST.

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KarbinCry wrote:
WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:
KarbinCry wrote:As I said earlier, I would like to limit jury trial to non-criminal cases, at the very least, to have charges of murder, manslaughter and bodily harm be decided without jury.

I'd agree other than those for rebellion, treason etc. as well as murder of police officers and soldiers.

Rebellion, treason, sedition... are cases where I can agree with exhonoratory jury.

bingcrosby7 wrote:Gentlemen,

I request a recess to initiate in approximately 20 minutes. Will the gentlemen present be willing to postpone further constitutional discussion for roughly 2.5 hours? As there will be an odd number of framers present, you can still break votes and, thus, my present is not an absolute necessity. Please let me know if a recess is desirable or possible.

OOC: I have to commute for a while and get settled in at work, but I will have several hours to go back to framing the constitution once I am settled in.

OOC: Sadly, for me, its 11 p.m. however, if a recess is agreed upon by others, I have nothing against it, my only job is studying and I am too smart to study Wink


OOC: Yeah for me it is 10 p.m but I will manage. Smile

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Death Penalty
Passed by 4 votes to 0 has been banned
Is it to be in the bill of rights? - 1 vote for against 0

Judiciary
In severe cases (life punishment) - 1 vote against 1 (fttb)
Limitations of jury system to non-criminal with exception of treason, sedition, rebellion - 2 votes against 0

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OOC: Since we are all in agreement thus far, perhaps we should just commence the recess now. This will allow me to shave some time off my commute. I will do my best to return to the forum ASAP.

IC: I appreciate everyone's hard work and eagerness to collaborate. I am proud to be part of the framing of our constitution.

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bingcrosby7 wrote:OOC: Since we are all in agreement thus far, perhaps we should just commence the recess now. This will allow me to shave some time off my commute. I will do my best to return to the forum ASAP.

IC: I appreciate everyone's hard work and eagerness to collaborate. I am proud to be part of the framing of our constitution.

I am fine with this

OOC: Yeah this is great and it is an honour to be one of the 4 involved in this. Since this is my first time in this kind of thing it is going great.

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OOC: Since we are talking about times and all that I will not be available 5:40 gmt - 20:20 gmt on Mondays and Wednesdays.

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I've literally been awake all night and it's just hit 9:17am here, so if I stop responding at any point in the day feel free to continue without me, I've likely just passed out.

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Can someone post a summarization of the rights that have been agreed upon so far?

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Zeiss wrote:Can someone post a summarization of the rights that have been agreed upon so far?

They are in the Current state of the constitution thread, as will everything we agree on.

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