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Region of Plainsdale

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26 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:11 am

A tax literally takes away an individual's right to control where their money or property goes. This is a universally applied 100% inheritance tax for productive land and enterprises. A person's primary house and possessions are entirely in their control and may be passed to any heir they specify.

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27 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:24 am

1) Your Ordinance says nothing about a tax. It only states that the properties will go to the Government.

2) Your Ordinance says land and enterprises. Land means all land, you do not state productive land.
(Don't fucking edit that Ordinance now or I will get you...)

3) Productive land still acts as property and should be designated to the heir in the will, not the government. Enterprises are a different matter all together, but are still the property of the owner, so it should be their right to deal with it how they want. If that owner dies, then the business should go to whoever he states in his will.

You clearly don't know your own Ordinance...

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28 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:30 am

OOC: I don't think it is really fair to use something that got passed into law without any real input from most the players. If we are going to have a hand waved national criminal law that wasn't approved by the players (because many wouldn't want to have to go through it), then we need to at least have the caveat that it only exists to the extent that the players agree to, for rule 0's sake. Rule 0 should dynamically overrule any controversial part of the criminal code. It isn't fun to have prevented players from doing things that they had no way to even influence.



Last edited by Governor Mega Erox on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:32 am; edited 1 time in total

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29 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:31 am

Hearing this argument the governor strikes the previous Ordinance and urges the regional assembly to enact

Regional Ordinance 002A: Inheritance Tax

A universally applied inheritance tax set at 100% will apply to all productive land and enterprises.

Regional Ordinance 003A: Abolition of Property Sales

No land or productive enterprise residing or registered within the established borders of Plainsdale may be bought or sold.

---------
Happy? I hope you are this diligent with all the laws of our republic Mr. President, or I might start to blush.

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30 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:36 am

Governor Mega Erox wrote:OOC: I don't think it is really fair to use something that got passed into law without any real input from most the players. If we are going to have a hand waved national criminal law that wasn't approved by the players (because many wouldn't want to have to go through it), then we need to at least have the caveat that it only exists to the extent that the players agree to, for rule 0's sake. Rule 0 should dynamically overrule any controversial part of the criminal code. It isn't fun to have prevented players from doing things that they had no way to even influence.

Unless you want to establish a criminal and civil code to present to the players, this is what we will have to deal with. Also, nothing that I have stated is controversial so far, I have literally only talked about wills and the regional government taking private property, which he has fixed.

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31 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:40 am

OOC: Maybe just don't spring it on us that a law that was passed before a decision was made, needs to conform with a specific piece of legislation that's not written down anywhere. Especially when there's no reason to assume inheritance should be a nationally, rather than regionally set piece of the civil code.

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32 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:40 am

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Hearing this argument the governor strikes the previous Ordinance and urges the regional assembly to enact

Regional Ordinance 002A: Inheritance Tax

A universally applied inheritance tax set at 100% will apply to all productive land and enterprises.

Regional Ordinance 003A: Abolition of Property Sales

No land or productive enterprise residing or registered within the established borders of Plainsdale may be bought or sold.

---------
Happy? I hope you are this diligent with all the laws of our republic Mr. President, or I might start to blush.

This is okay except for two things:
1) Your inheritance tax will only work with enterprises that have one owners. Just making sure your aware of that.
2) Ordinance003 still only states land and not productive land. My main problem with Ordinance001 is that it was way too vague.

OOC: Sorry, but I have to do this. My IC would be 100% against what your doing and this is probsbly what he would do. Very Happy

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33 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:42 am

Working as designed
That is correct, no land is able to be sold.

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34 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:42 am

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:OOC: Maybe just don't spring it on us that a law that was passed before a decision was made, needs to conform with a specific piece of legislation that's not written down anywhere. Especially when there's no reason to assume inheritance should be a nationally, rather than regionally set piece of the civil code.

Civil and criminal code is a matter of the national government. It says so in the constitution.

Also, I'm sorry about springing on you, but this is what my IC would do...

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35 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:42 am

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Working as designed
That is correct, no land is able to be sold.

Okay...

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36 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:44 am

President Grifenknight wrote:
Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:OOC: Maybe just don't spring it on us that a law that was passed before a decision was made, needs to conform with a specific piece of legislation that's not written down anywhere. Especially when there's no reason to assume inheritance should be a nationally, rather than regionally set piece of the civil code.

Civil and criminal code is a matter of the national government.  It says so in the constitution.

Also, I'm sorry about springing on you, but this is what my IC would do...

The regions have the ability to set their own non-competing civil and criminal codes in the constitution.

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37 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:47 am

OOC: It is a matter of national government that didn't go through the Council of Governor for out of character convenience. Again, if this is done, when their is a conflict like this, we just have to presume the thing in question was vague, or didn't exist in the code. Criminal and civil law is both of national and regional matters.

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38 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:48 am

As long as it doesn't conflict with the national law (i.e. criminal and civil code).

OOC: FUCK, this is a real issue...

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39 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:52 am

OOC: I think we really need a discussion on how its going to work out. I'm currently creating the Southport Core and I'm going to be including criminal law in it. Most of it will be simple stuff that I'm just going to presume is in agreement with the national standards (no killing people, no stealing, etc). The reason I'm doing this is because, in character, it would be good to have just in case the national government removed or lowered their standards.

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40 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:53 am

We could just write controversial pieces of the civil and criminal code on an ad-hoc basis that are then back-dated? That way we don't need to waste time writing a full civil and criminal code, but we at least get input into fundamental aspects of how our society functions when they crop up?



Last edited by Governor WhiskeyWhiskers on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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41 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:53 am

Let me state this:
Criminal and civil codes are established by the National government.
The regional government can add to this, but cannot take anything away or add anything that conflicts with the national set codes.
My problem with Mr. Whisker was that his Ordinance was too vague and my problem was mainly constitutionality and civil code was kinda on the side. It seems like the matter has ended though.

One quick questions:
Do you have a democratically elected legislature in Plainsdale? It is required by the constitution. Very Happy Also, I doubt these bills would be popular and would have difficulty passing through your legislature as I am sure some of them have enterprises or productive land or land they want to sell...

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42 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:54 am

OOC: Sadly, I must go to sleep irl, but I would recommend bringing these subjects up in the public senate meeting.

Sorry whiskers Sad

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43 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:59 am

Yes, it is directly democratic. I was the one who fought tooth and nail for that. And I think you'll find not many do disagree actually. The end of the tyranny of the landlord is a sweet nectar to many of the landless peasants who have slaved away on others farms for scraps at the table. The working class outnumber the bourgeoisie.

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44 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:22 am

OOC: Inheritance Tax is legal under the Constitution. However, abolition of property sale is debatable, and could be understood as a violation of the right to own property, since by prohibiting an important function of owning property (that you can also choose to sell it), it limits ownership.

It doesn't matter how inheritance is handled by National Law, because the Regional Government has the right to levy taxes, as long as they apply to everyone the same.
In other words, you will get inheritance in Plainsdale, but the Government will tax it 100%. The National Government cannot legally do anything to overturn this ordinance by itself.

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45 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:52 am

It is an important function of property under a capitalist mode of production. As you have made quite clear, the regions are entirely able to reject capitalism if it is their democratic wish. Under a communist system, the concept of selling property is superfluous. And as it is not a literal part of the constitution and subject to interpretation, there is no reason to assume property is defined as capitalist private property. People may gift whatever property they wish to another person if they no longer want to use it.

e:Woops, this is my alt account. -WhiskeyWhiskers.

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46 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:05 am

OOC: As I said, it is contentious issue. In other words, there is a case on both sides should this ordinance get to the Constitutional Court.

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47 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:38 am

The use of Labour Vouchers will be declared a failed experiment by the regional government, crushed by the national bank and constitution before it could even be started in earnest.

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48 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:53 am

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:The use of Labour Vouchers will be declared a failed experiment by the regional government, crushed by the national bank and constitution before it could even be started.

Why are they being declared a failure? Labor vouchers are much better than using another form of currency and can be used to redeem Espadas from the regional government once the care package arrives. Also, why was it crushed by the Bank and Constitution?

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49 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:56 am

Labour vouchers was an admirable way of transitioning the economy, however, it has served its purpose.

As Espada is the official currency of the State, all public budgets have to be in Espada, including payments. Thus, replacement of Espada with vouchers is, in the Bank's eyes, unconstitutional.

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50 Re: Region of Plainsdale on Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:00 am

OOC: Have the regions received Espadas yet? Or are they waiting for the budget to pass the legislature?

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