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[Public] First Echaini Senate

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101 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:52 am

OOC: WTF???

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102 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:54 am

Sorry to interrupt Senators but I had the......mischievous Governor removed from the premises.

OOC: That was weird Shocked

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103 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:09 pm

The Chair will remind the honorable senators that they need to put the PRIVATE tag on a thread if they wish a session to remain closed to those not required to attend.


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104 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:39 pm

Director,

Two things before I itemize my response to your lengthy address. First, I was under the impression that we were still working out the finer details of Bill 001C's disbursement, and I thought we were doing so via private messages so that we had an actual plan that put us on the same page before we went public. I made this clear in my addresses to the Senate, and I said nothing was concrete. So why have you come here to the Senate to give visibility to what is clearly an unfinished plan? Second, everyone knows that I have been completely transparent and have been honest forthcoming with everyone, so I am more than irked by the fact that you've said I'm spreading misinformation. If you believe I have done so with intent, I will be a touch more than irked. If my tone expresses anything, it is that a) we have not made a concrete plan, and b) I have not fully understood your rationale. So, without further ado, allow me to respond:

1) The bill IS a budget. It determines how Espadas will be spent, who will spend them, and under what conditions the Espadas are to be spent. I’m not sure how this is not a budget. The bill uses the word budget numerous times. If this is not sufficient, then the MoFT needs to get in here immediately and determine how the allocations shall be disbursed.
2) Why? Literally nothing has changed from what I’ve proposed in PMs and what I’ve stated on the Senate floor. Must I release my private messages?
3+ 4) If the 100M has been sent to the government, what is the problem with giving out the 33M packages? I suggested we do this precisely because you said you want there to be an incentive for the money to be put into the hands of the people rather into the hands of the government. Why do the packages not achieve this goal?
5) And if not? Is the National Bank prepared to withhold funds from the Federal government?
6) Bill 001C is a law now, and all parts of the bill shall be funded. Putting the money directly into the hands of the people would circumvent the law (and would potentially underfund the military and prevent the nation from building trade docks and an interregional highway system). If you move to disburse the funds as you see fit, and if you under fund the bill in any way, I will do whatever it takes to stop that action. You have my word.
7) This is a goal of the project, but it is also a secondary goal—the first goal is to rebuild Echain. The Espada means nothing is men, women, and children die in the streets because the Clean Water Initiative was not funded directly. The Espada means nothing if we have no military to protect us. Funding this bill and fulfilling this budget ensures that we achieve both goals.
8 ) Changing the constitution is built into the constitution—if we did not want to add to it, we would not have written in ways to do so. Changing the curriculum of lower education does not weaken the bank.
9) I honestly see this as a useful alternative if future Senators do not wish to amend the constitution (an action, may I remind you, that s constitutionally protected).
10) Again, this is built into the Bill.

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105 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:52 pm

I should note that the budgetary elements of the bill have been signed off and officially sponsored by the President.

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106 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:18 pm

A spectator stands up and suddenly speaks.

I did be comin' 'ere as I 'eard the national gov'ment were tryin' to overstep their bounds and get into public lower education, which is protected by the const'ution as a right given to the regions. No need to worry Mr. 3000, I'll be steppin' out shortly.

I do be wishin' to say that if the gov'ment takes any drastic military action against the national bank, Southport will consider it an act of terrorism, and take some drastic action in return. I do be pretty sure that Southport would no' be alone in this. I do be suggestin' you tread carefully and treat Karbin with respect.

Anyways, I do be 'avin' some leglislation to be workin' on. Carry on.

The man tips his sailor hat and then leaves the building, whistling a sailor shanty until out of earshot.

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107 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:30 pm

Honourable Senators,
I must apologise, for my previous speech could have been construed to atteck the Senate, while that is far from the truth.
In fact, the one responsible for these problems, is almost solely the Ministry of Finance and Transportation.
The job of the Bank is to ensure a stable and circulated currency, and the Bank has done all it can to do so.
The job of the Senate is to determine what should be provided by the National Government, and it has done so in Bill 001C.
However, it is the job of the Cabinet, and, in this case, the Minister of Finance and Transportation, to make a concrete Budget which fulfils the parameters set in Law by the Senate.

Yet, the Minister has, to my knowledge, not even truly attempted to fulfil his duty.

If, as you say, Foreman Crosby, Bill 001C is a full budget, then tell me, please, where does it state the exact numbers allotted to each segment. It has none.
Furthermore, if it truly is supposed to be a Budget, I, as a Citizen, see no other recourse than to challenge it in Constitutional Court, for the Constitution clearly mandates that only the President may bring the Budget to the floor. Even a Budget ex post factum signed by the President is unconstitutional, and for a good reason - this is the job of the Minister of Finance and Transportation, and he is paid to do it. The fact he didn't and doesn't do what he should is baffling to me, as well as the fact that only the Bank, whose job isn't even to check the Ministers, is the only institution noticing his negligence, as he rather "made trips" to Plainsdale and some such.

The reason the Bank needs the Government spend some of the mint quickly, is that, as of right now, only the Government has Espada. And until there is enough Espada amongst the People, Espada is not a true and circulating currency.
The Bank only released 100 million, because it understands that noone can truly guarantee quick spending, and if the Government proves unable to jump-start the currency by spending it fast enough, the Bank has to have the ability to use one of the other two ways of how to distribute the Espada amongst the People.

It is not the job of the Bank to blindly bankroll the Government, it is the job of the Bank to provide a stable and circulating currency. If it is necessary, for these functions to be met, to withhold funds from the Government, the Bank will do so.
It will do its duty, unlike the Minister of Finance and Transportation, who is instead playing with trains in the Great Fields. (OOC: part of Plainsdale)

Lastly, to answer the further push by the President to throw out whatever he dislikes in the Constitution.
The Constitution was established mere weeks ago, and you want to change it? That would not be simply a change, it would be a betrayal of the People, who voted for the Constitution as is.
That means the legality of the Constitution as a covenant between the State and the People would be irreparably broken, meaning the Bank's position would be as well. Counterfeiting Espada would perhaps be legal, and minting of Espada by the Bank would perhaps be illegal.
The Bank would have to discern its future and, until then, suspend its function, which includes minting and releasing Espada, as well as backing it.

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108 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:31 pm

Governor Mega Erox wrote:A spectator stands up and suddenly speaks.

I did be comin' 'ere as I 'eard the national gov'ment were tryin' to overstep their bounds and get into public lower education, which is protected by the const'ution as a right given to the regions. No need to worry Mr. 3000, I'll be steppin' out shortly.

I do be wishin' to say that if the gov'ment takes any drastic military action against the national bank, Southport will consider it an act of terrorism, and take some drastic action in return. I do be pretty sure that Southport would no' be alone in this. I do be suggestin' you tread carefully and treat Karbin with respect.

Anyways, I do be 'avin' some leglislation to be workin' on. Carry on.

The man tips his sailor hat and then leaves the building, whistling a sailor shanty until out of earshot.

Wait, Mr, Governor.

If you have the fortitude to come in and address concerns about how the Senate is being run, then you should have the fortitude to stay long enough for a response.

First of all, we've tabled the educational bill and are reworking it in order to put more power into the hands of the regional government, so rest assured that the current iteration of the bill is nothing about which to be concerned.

As for the preposterous notion of direct military action against the national bank, I urge you to not place words into my mouth, Mr. Governor. I was the first to come out against the notion of war in the immediate aftermath of the Republic's establishment, so why would I, then, use military force against a personal friend--a friend for whom I have respect and admiration? What have I done to you to warrant such a flagrant character smear, Mr. Governor? I work through legislation, not through force. And regarding my tone with the Director: I am pointed but cordial, direct but respectful. If my rhetoric strikes you as barbed, or my expression as curt, that is a personal matter you must sort out for yourself. The Director and I have a long working relationship, and we do not attack each other personally, which is, however, something I cannot say about you, Mr. Governor.

So let me be clear about one more thing: I do not use legislation to settle personal issues, and I classify being called a potential terrorist as a personal issue. If you suggest that I am a terrorist in the future, I will promptly drop any air of Senatorial decorum and handle personal attacks the way the working men of Southport do. This much, I believe, you can understand and respect.

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109 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:39 pm

Honorable Director,

This is the sort of clarity I would have liked to have seen prior to your Senatorial presentation. The bill is divided into several packages, all of which are denoted by percentages, seeing as the Senate had no clue as to how big the first minting of the Espada would be.

As for the disbursement plan and budget, I have one question. Since the MoFT can not be found, can the duty for budgeting and disbursing the Espadas, then, be deferred to the President? The good of the people is of the utmost importance; and, if they do not receive their allotments, they will go into regional debt (because they have all decided to start projects even in the absence of a currency).

Lastly, as for the educational bill, we are tabling the bill and are tabling the constitutional amendment. And, because I think your proposal to set guidelines for universities is the most equitable manner by which to motivate the regional governments, I will instead look into drafting such a piece of legislation, and I thank the gentleman for his input.

So please, let me know—directly—how we can fulfill the needs of the people and the regional governments as soon as possible, in the absence of our MoFT.

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110 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:46 pm

Honourable Foreman,
I must repeat apologies for the obtuseness of my previous statement regardless.

Now, my opinion as a co-author of the Constitution concerning the Budget is as follows: while the Constitution gives the Minister of Finance and Transportation authority over the Treasury, the Budget rule states clearly that the Budget is proposed by the president. This means your proposed solution would work.

However, as the Director of the Bank, I strongly urge you to increase the net spend in the first two months to at least 50 million, to start proper circulation of Espada. If the Government will do so, the Bank will release the rest of the current Mint through it, but only if the Government proves successful in distributing Espada into the general distribution.

Also, The Bank would like the Senate and especially the President to at least reprimand the Minister of Finance and Transportation - when he's actually going to show up in hallowed halls of Government, that is.

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111 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:53 pm

Director Karbin Cry (NB) wrote:Honourable Foreman,
I must repeat apologies for the obtuseness of my previous statement regardless.

Now, my opinion as a co-author of the Constitution concerning the Budget is as follows: while the Constitution gives the Minister of Finance and Transportation authority over the Treasury, the Budget rule states clearly that the Budget is proposed by the president. This means your proposed solution would work.

However, as the Director of the Bank, I strongly urge you to increase the net spend in the first two months to at least 50 million, to start proper circulation of Espada. If the Government will do so, the Bank will release the rest of the current Mint through it, but only if the Government proves successful in distributing Espada into the general distribution.

Also, The Bank would like the Senate and especially the President to at least reprimand the Minister of Finance and Transportation - when he's actually going to show up in hallowed halls of Government, that is.

Director,

I believe the President will have no problems increasing the disbursement to 50M for the first two months, and I will provide counsel while he determines how to allocate the funds in a manner that most adequately responds to the needs of the people while maintaining the letter of the law (i.e. Bill 001C). The President, I assume, shall disburse the funds by the end of the day, given that he returns to the floor. Thank you for your contributions and cooperation, and please know that the candor with which I addressed you has nothing to do with your person but, rather, is reflective of my frustration in implementing this law.

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112 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:55 pm

Honourable Foreman,
I do understand your frustration, since we both share the Hekaté - Minister of Finance and Transportation, who forgot about the Finances of the State.

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113 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:57 pm

I have made a bill and gave it to the President, dont worry it just needs revised and will be sent out tonight

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114 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:39 pm

OOC: There was also some confusion as to if the Ministers were also still Senators. That might explain a lot.

Gentlemen, enough of these fiery words. We are all in wooden buildings and seated on wooden chairs. If one burns, so do we all.

So we don't continue chasing our own tail, I urge the President to propose the budget we had previously voted on (or whatever the MoFT provides) if the constitutionality is still an issue, and we immediately decide on the amount of Espada we will initially release as our relief fund, $50 million or half of our current allotment (?) sounds fine. The percentage of the allotments and their use has (hopefully) been outlined.

I would urge Minister KarbinCry to not release funds until after our first budget has been disbursed. Even then, I do not think releasing funds equivalent to our entire reserve this early in reconstruction is advisable.
Let us see how the disbursement first goes. I'm sure their are undercurrents in the nation that would take advantage of so much money being transported at once.

I think having the Governors send their own people to collect the disbursement would be advisable. This would allow the Governors to personally take responsibility for their allotment.

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115 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:40 pm

OOC: I just got back from the gym, sorry.
I'll get to work on the budget right away.

IC:
1) Who the fuck was that sailor and why was he putting words in the mouth of Mr. Crosby? We really need some tighter security.

2) I truly believe that changing the university guidelines would not affect the regions in any major way. While it may affect regions like Aberisk(Has the university) and Central City(Technically the political center of Echain), because they are originally more educated and powerful areas, I doubt it would affect areas like Lurem or Southport, where they may deem it necessary to train their students as traders or miners instead of educating them. This would only widen the gap between regions and could possibly put down any brilliant minds among these students that are in the regions that decide it not worthy to fully invest or advocate education. There are, also, many benefits to having a national curriculum. Students would be exposed to more subjects, it would stop regions from only teaching the bare minimum stated in the constitution, and would allow a common core for the minister of education to more easily understand and react to, to list a few things.
Allowing the regions to run rampant with our education might not seem like it's too bad right now, but by the times the regions are able to fully establish their schools and curriculums, it will affect our nation in the future.

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116 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:22 pm

OOC: The GM wishes for full transparency. For purposes of realism, fun, and politickying, the budget issues will be considered unresolved by Turn 1's end. Just an FYI before anyone gets upset when they see Turn 1's results.


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117 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:23 pm

The Lorerunner wrote:OOC: The GM wishes for full transparency.  For purposes of realism, fun, and politickying, the budget issues will be considered unresolved by Turn 1's end.  Just an FYI before anyone gets upset when they see Turn 1's results.

Translation = Get Fucked.

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118 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:23 pm

Senators of the Senate

Can we get a clear "List" on what we are working on right now. I got lost in all the talking.

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119 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:41 pm

Senator Killerbean wrote:Senators of the Senate

Can we get a clear "List" on what we are working on right now. I got lost in all the talking.

Senator,

As of right now, we're waiting for the President to formulate a budget with the MoFT; only after the budget has been proposed will we be able to disburse funds.

At this time, we have not set an agenda, for much will depend on how Bill 001C is implemented. I propose we put off drafting new pieces of legislation until we have a sense of how Bill 001C is working.

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120 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:14 pm

I agree with Senator Bing Crosby.

I was working on a bill for International trade, but it sounds more like instructions the President should give to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, CoolKid. Perhaps that can be more of a Senatorial/Presidential Mandate or Pronouncement. Some sort of public action so the people and the governors know of our policy.

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121 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:59 pm

OOC: This reply happened right as I was at the door, as I caught Bing's reply. So it should have happened a couple of hours before now.

Bing Crosby wrote:As for the preposterous notion of direct military action against the national bank, I urge you to not place words into my mouth, Mr. Governor.

You did be sayin' (and I do be quotin') "If you move to disburse the funds as you see fit, and if you under fund the bill in any way, I will do whatever it takes to stop that action. You have my word."

Now I do be knowin' that you are fond o' your flowery way o' sayin' thin's, but this translates to, in reality, that you would take military action. Do you be expecitin' me to be believin' that you would be bakin' cupcakes for 'im? Maybe givin' 'im a 'ug? I do no be puttin' words in your mouth, but inferrin' the meanin' o' somethin' e'en a child could understand.

I called you a potential terrorist as, if you 'ad taken action against the bank (as you said), you would be undermindin' a vital service to the nation to fufill your own economic wishes. That is tyrannical, and I will no' allow it. 'Opefully it was just a bluff to make 'im cowed, but your speech still 'as me worried. Flowery courtesy does no' protect against such a blatant author'tarian action. Now, I do be 'avin' a region I need to attend to. I did no' be wantin' to come at all, but it was urgent that I did be seein' this for myself. Now if you'll excuse me.

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122 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:07 pm

Governor Mega Erox wrote:OOC: This reply happened right as I was at the door, as I caught Bing's reply. So it should have happened a couple of hours before now.

Bing Crosby wrote:As for the preposterous notion of direct military action against the national bank, I urge you to not place words into my mouth, Mr. Governor.

You did be sayin' (and I do be quotin') "If you move to disburse the funds as you see fit, and if you under fund the bill in any way, I will do whatever it takes to stop that action. You have my word."

Now I do be knowin' that you are fond o' your flowery way o' sayin' thin's, but this translates to, in reality, that you would take military action. Do you be expecitin' me to be believin' that you would be bakin' cupcakes for 'im? Maybe givin' 'im a 'ug? I do no be puttin' words in your mouth, but inferrin' the meanin' o' somethin' e'en a child could understand.

I called you a potential terrorist as, if you 'ad taken action against the bank (as you said), you would be undermindin' a vital service to the nation to fufill your own economic wishes. That is tyrannical, and I will no' allow it. 'Opefully it was just a bluff to make 'im cowed, but your speech still 'as me worried. Flowery courtesy does no' protect against such a blatant author'tarian action. Now, I do be 'avin' a region I need to attend to. I did no' want to come at all, but it was urgent that I did be seein' this for myself. Now if you'll excuse me.

Technically... The bank is a service established by the nation to fulfill its economic wishes. The government would be allowed to use military action if the bank does not allow a law to be implemented after it has passed the federal legislature just like any other service established by the government.

Let me restate... The federal government can use military action if any service established by the government(i.e. the bank) impedes the implementation of a bill that has passed the legislature therefore making it a LAW. Any action against laws are unconstitutional and criminal unless that law has any conflicts with the bill of rights or the constitution.

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123 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:29 pm

Well, the military is still being worked on, so we can get back to discussing butchering each other like gutless fish at a later date. And until such a date as we bring back the tradition of dueling, let us ignore this rising tradition of filibustering.
I would like to discuss this further with just the Senatorial body.
Link: http://speedrun4fun.forumotion.com/t1487-private-first-echaini-senate-continued-senators-only

OOC: Until this thread is made PRIVATE to all others except Senators, I will make a new thread.



Last edited by Adamemnon on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : link)

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124 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:35 pm

Adamemnon wrote:Well, the military is still being worked on, so we can get back to discussing butchering each other like gutless fish at a later date. And until such a date as we bring back the tradition of dueling, let us ignore this rising tradition of filibustering.
I would like to discuss this further with just the Senatorial body.
Link: http://speedrun4fun.forumotion.com/t1487-private-first-echaini-senate-continued-senators-only

OOC: Until this thread is made PRIVATE to all others except Senators, I will make a new thread.


OOC: I changed the thread to Private but Arche highly suggested we change it back to public for gameplay reasons.

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125 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:43 pm

OOC: I started a new private thread, we can continue there if we want and have this one open to the public.

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