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[Public] First Echaini Senate

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26 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:27 pm

Senator Killerbean wrote:Senators of Echain
I believe that after some time of silence it is time for answers.

I would like a clear answer about this bill Mr. Crosby has proposed.
Do we accept the bill as is and make amendments later?
Or do we have to make changes to this bill to make it work as intended?

My own vote goes toward passing this bill now and make amendments or additives later.
The people of Echain need clarity and we should give them clarity now rather than later.


I would like to thank the gentleman for feedback, and, at this time, I agree that we should advance the legislation with the possibility of amending it in the future, should the need arise. That said, before the bill is ratified, I will explicitly state that private businesses must be Echaini, just so that the emergency relief both provides relief and creates Echaini jobs. That said, we have two options regarding the bill's passage. We can either:

1) Wait to vote on the bill until Karbincry has minted and solidified the Espada.
2) Pass the legislation now and wait to disburse funds until Karbincry has minted and solidified the Espada.

I'd like the ask the floor which of the two above mentioned options is preferable.

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27 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:09 pm

OOC: The hell does Kappa mean?
(via radio)
Comr- pardon me.
Senator Bing Crosby, I appreciate your bill, but I think the allocation of funds to the 9 regions does not line up with our top priorities.

Bill 001
Why is Waltens receiving such a large amount of funds? They were relatively untouched during the occupation. Surely their infrastructure is not in the same shambles as other regions? Their population is large, but I think a smaller amount will be enough to ensure the people's prosperity in Waltens. Please correct me if my thoughts on this are incorrect.
We should reduce the percentage Waltens receives to 20% and redistribute the 13% to Plainsdale and Southport. Southport increased to 13%, Plainsdale to 15%.
This is because I agree with President GrifeKnight's naval assessment. Southport has our most operational harbour in the nation, and maritime trade is something we need to develop quickly, along with a navy to protect our trade ships. Providing funds to Plainsdale is an obvious choice as we need to ensure our people are fed while they work on these other projects. This helps all regions but especially Waltens, which will benefit much from the influx of food from Plainsdale.

As to Director KarbinCry on Northport and Versberg, I agree that ensuring our rubber production is ongoing is our top priority in that region, given our currency is backed by it. The precious metals and mines should receive a smaller amount and be our long term concern. I say add the remaining 6% removed from Waltens to the harvest of rubber.
These are also comments on article 2 of the proposed Bill 001.

Regarding Article 1, while I trust many governors to do what is right for their people, some may not. I think the provision stating Governors can deposit the surplus of the relief funds into essentially their own coffers should be restricted to at most 15% of their initial relief funds.

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28 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:15 pm

From what I am able to gather, Mr. Adam, the wealth going to Waltens would be distributed among the populace. That is why it's percentage is so large. Waltensians had a much larger population than any other region, so it would make sense that more money would go there.

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29 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:44 pm

Senator Adamemnon,

The reason I have allocated the funds the way I have is written into the bill itself; I chose the percentages based off the population of each region. So, Waltens is receiving a disproportionately high rate of funds became approximately one-in-three Echaini citizens live in Waltens. And, even if the basic standard of living is a bit higher than in other regions, it takes more money to raise the standard of living across the board due to the fact that a) Waltens is a large region, and b) again, over one million people reside there.

With that out of the way, however, I am willing to compromise on certain numbers; however, I think your proposal is a bit draconian. And, to be frank, if we are to take thirteen percent from Waltens in the first place, Versberg should receive part of the funds due to the reasons you’ve provided in your counter-proposal.

If we are, indeed, going to redistribute the funds, I propose we take not only from Waltens but also from Lurem. Lurem, as of right now, is in no short supply of clean food and water, and the farming is booming, which is not true of other regions. They also have the largest militia in the country, which means that, following the desolation of the remaining PA-PGL members, they will be one of the most stable regions. So, I propose we take no more than ten percent from Waltens’ allocation and no more than three percent of Lurem’s allocation. This reaches the thirteen percent threshold you proposed.

As for the question of governors, I don’t believe there is reason to worry for a number of reasons. First, the reconstruction of the provinces will almost certainly require governors to use a majority, if not all of, their allocations; but, second, and perhaps more pragmatically, if the Governors do not meet the standards laid out in the bill, they will be breaking federal law, and they will subsequently be tried and convicted of Federal crime. In short, they have an incredible incentive to pump their funds directly into the local economies. But, if it will make you rest better, I will write in a provision that states Governors must use at least 85% of their allocations; and, if they do not, they can place 15% into the regional government coffers and donate the rest to a neighboring province.

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30 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:16 pm

Senator Bing Crosby,

Thank you for clarifying the situation. If Walten and Lurem are as you describe, I am not opposed to these changes. Something I hope the Senators from those regions can elaborate on if necessary.
I indeed had Versberg in mind when I referred to the rubber resources subsidy.

I was simply concerned that governors would use different definitions of 'standard of living' and such for their own profit. It is also a useful precedent to establish.

The changes you agreed to and modified sound good to me. I am agree on voting for this piece of legislation now, before waiting for the Espada to circulate. Divvying out the budget can act as our way of circulating the Espada. We need to provide the people with clear direction and leadership as soon as possible.

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31 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:19 pm

I would like to make you all aware that in Lurem, the governor is broadcasting to the citizens that the Senate is unwilling to send help and that they will use the Japanese Yen unless they are given a reasonable exchange between the yen and Espada.

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32 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:30 pm

Mr. President,

I urge you to make a public statement regarding the change to the Espada. Because we do not have a national currency at this time, there are no concrete laws about regional currency. That said, once the Espadas are minted and disbursed, it becomes the National currency; and, anyone who circulates any other currency over the Espada will be breaching the constitution, and will, therefore, be sent to trial in front of the Constitutional court (who will subsequently deliberate, issue a verdict, and ultimately issue a punishment).

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33 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:32 pm

Honorable Senator,

I, too, urge the Senate to vote in the legislation prior to the creation and circulation of the Espada; I, thus, officially put forward the motion for all Senators to vote Yay or Nay on the amended version of Bill 001A (which, after changes and upon ratification, shall be changed to Bill 001B).

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34 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:12 pm

I vote yay

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35 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:17 pm

Yay, yay I say.

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36 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:31 pm

Senator Gustavo will vote Yay
Senator Lors will vote Nay.


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37 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:35 pm

I vote Yay.

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38 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:37 pm

The Chair believes with 4 Yays that passes the motion, presuming Bills pass via simple majority. The Chair requests clarification from the Constitutional Judge to be certain.


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39 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Since this bill has passed...
I would like the Senate to come up with a federal budget as soon as possible. My ministers require a budget in order to start their reconstruction efforts and they do not want to overspend before the budget is placed.

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40 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:49 pm

OOC: We ought to hold a Senatorial election to put someone into the position of Constitutional Court Justice. Since two of the three seats are more than likely always going to be NPCs, I will simply provide the conclusion a Constitutional scholar, regardless of partisanship, would provide.

According to Article Five, Senators propose laws and advance them by means of a simple majority. The Constitutional Court reviews the law for constitutional saliency (I wrote the law--everything is constitutionally sound). Approved proposals are then ratified by a simple majority of the Council of Governors (a 5-4 ruling passes the law, each governor has one vote); and, once the CoG has voted, the President has the power to veto the bill. If the President chooses to veto the bill, the Senate can pass it by a 2/3 majority rule.

In short: next immediate step is to have Governors vote to pass the bill. If they pass it, the President must approve it.

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41 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:53 pm

OOC: hehehe that doesn't stop you from working on that budget... Very Happy

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42 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:59 pm

The Chair has set up the conference room for Governors to vote on Approved Bills. If the Senate would please place this Bill for ratification in the thread at their earliest convenience.


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43 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:56 pm

Honorable Senators,

I have drafted another bill which I wish to put to the floor. It is a brief bill, but I believe it is an important one. The idea was originally proposed by Governor Erox. I, thus, submit Bill 002A for review.

Bill 002A: Legislative Simplification Act

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44 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Bill 002A

Banging of approval is heard from Adamemnon.

"This is necessary. Making our bills comprehensible to even the common man is good.
Though I do think this is partially defeating the point of a Senate. The Governors should not be able to edit the bills at all. They should only be able to vote Yay or Nay on it, as our Constitution currently states (I believe).
The Governors should be able to reject the bill, then if us Senators feel the need, we will edit it, taking the feedback they supply into account. Allowing the Governors any more say on the matter makes the Senate the equivalent to a gallbladder. Useful, but ultimately unnecessary."

OOC: I can hardly believe 'gubernatorial' is a word.

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45 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:04 pm

Adamemnon wrote:Bill 002A

Banging of approval is heard from Adamemnon.

"This is necessary. Making our bills comprehensible to even the common man is good.
Though I do think this is partially defeating the point of a Senate. The Governors should not be able to edit the bills at all. They should only be able to vote Yay or Nay on it, as our Constitution currently states (I believe).
The Governors should be able to reject the bill, then if us Senators feel the need, we will edit it, taking the feedback they supply into account. Allowing the Governors any more say on the matter makes the Senate the equivalent to a gallbladder. Useful, but ultimately unnecessary."

OOC: I can hardly believe 'gubernatorial' is a word.

Perhaps I need to clear up some of the language in the bill, but, just to be clear, Governors cannot touch the bills, and their suggestions do not have to be taken seriously; rather, they serve as a failsafe to ensure that the bills are a) precise, b) concise, c) singular in motion, and d) transparent. That said, I don't believe bills that need to be further divided will make their way to the CoG since the Senate is already conscientious. Does that make sense, Senator?

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46 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:23 pm

The Chair votes... er no wait.
Senator Gustavo votes Yay.
Senator Lors votes Nay.


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47 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:41 pm

I don't like resting part of this bill on a temporary belief that all future bills will not need to be subdivided. And I think giving the Governors more things to do with the bills we send them will unnecessarily complicate things.
Ensuring the bills are concise, transparent, and precise should be a job for the Senators, not the Governors and the writer(s) of the bill.

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48 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:48 pm

Adamemnon wrote:I don't like resting part of this bill on a temporary belief that all future bills will not need to be subdivided. And I think giving the Governors more things to do with the bills we send them will unnecessarily complicate things.  
Ensuring the bills are concise, transparent, and precise should be a job for the Senators, not the Governors and the writer(s) of the bill.

According to the language of the bill, "individual subjects may contain necessary subsections," so subdivisions are protected by the bill. This merely prevents bills from grouping military spending and farming subsidies together in one bill (this is important because we may wish to advance the military but oppose the subsidies, or vice versa). As for the subject of giving the CoG additional tasks, they aren't actually doing more work. They must read the bills, regardless of their length. I guarantee that the longer the bill is, the more problems there will be (when voting for Bill 001C, each Governor, it seems, had a different problem that dealt with a different Article--dividing bills fixes that problem).

So, what do you propose as an alternative?

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49 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:13 pm

I Myself am okay with simplification. I guess this would be okay.
Yay i guess.

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50 Re: [Public] First Echaini Senate on Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:16 pm

Senator Killerbean wrote:I Myself am okay with simplification. I guess this would be okay.
Yay i guess.

OOC: I love the enthusiasm for this bill XD

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