Lorerunner's Forums

The Lorerunner's Forums

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» PATREON CHANGES
Today at 4:34 pm by Braigwen

» Turn 1-1070
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:24 pm by The_Wanderer_In_Rags

» Black Scale
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:48 pm by SilverDragonRed

» HAPPY BIRTHDAY...
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:32 pm by WKC690

» Black Water
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:17 pm by SilverDragonRed

» Turn 12-1069
Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:41 pm by Onyx Aurelius

» Turn 11-1069
Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:51 am by Onyx Aurelius

» MCU Discussion Links - Historical
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:12 pm by DollarD

» Turn 10-1069
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:44 pm by Crensler


You are not connected. Please login or register

Old Ministry of Defense

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 10 of 13]

226 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:49 pm

President Grifenknight wrote:Police and the Military cannot cooperate in normal circumstances, however, under Article Nine, "All measures impossible to properly fulfil are to have postponed effect until they are fulfiled, at the
most until 1.1.1950." which could be argued to include diffusion of the police into military action while the military is unable to fulfil its duty.

THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.
It is not, what we need to know is whether this is a normal circumstance or not. Could the police have taken on this task without a military command? I believe it would have been eminently possible had Director Infernal informed the governors themselves of the intelligence rather than the head of the military. A move that makes absolutely no sense if we are to take that this is a police operation.

View user profile

227 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:50 pm

This whole entire argument might be over once Lore responds to my PM. I have asked him if the current army in the spreadsheet is actually ours or does it come in at the end of the turn? If it comes in at the end of the turn, then there should be no problem since all the forces will be police...

View user profile

228 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:51 pm

Under the command of the military. The problem persists.

View user profile

229 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:52 pm

We should, for now, stop this quarrel. I know that both sides are doing what they feel just, yet we are hampered by our lack of knowledge pertaining to the situation.

We must clearly ascertain and prove the following:
- is there an armed rebellion against the State
- if there is, what are their goals, methods and strength
- the Government, as it is, must solve the problem
- after the problem is solved, we must review what happened in Court of Law - actions of both the Rebels, the Government, and everyone else involved, including Governor Whiskers

I do support Governor Whiskers, as the language used in the telegram sent by the Government was highly suggestive of a joint police-military action and it lacked any discussion or argumentation pertaining to the legality of such action.
Furthermore, the Government showed clearly on several occasions inclinations towards un-constitutional behaviour, favouritism and neglect, which eroded trust in the Government, and, therefore, the Government does share blame for the actions of Governor Whiskers.

However, as I said, this is to be determined at a Court of law, if need be, after the crisis has passed and we can devote sufficient time for such discussion.

Right now, we should all pay attention to a possible threat to the State as the whole, as all present here have shown at least rudimentary respect for the Law and the Constitution, whereas any possible rebels would have none.

PS: When I say "can be argued" it does not in any case mean "it is so". The Government may use this clause as justification, however, we cannot judge actions not yet taken, and we cannot judge without being able to freely dedicate time and attention to the case.
We do have other matters at hand.

View user profile

230 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:53 pm

Director Karbin Cry (NB) wrote:We should, for now, stop this quarrel. I know that both sides are doing what they feel just, yet we are hampered by our lack of knowledge pertaining to the situation.

We must clearly ascertain and prove the following:
- is there an armed rebellion against the State
- if there is, what are their goals, methods and strength
- the Government, as it is, must solve the problem
- after the problem is solved, we must review what happened in Court of Law - actions of both the Rebels, the Government, and everyone else involved, including Governor Whiskers

I do support Governor Whiskers, as the language used in the telegram sent by the Government was highly suggestive of a joint police-military action and it lacked any discussion or argumentation pertaining to the legality of such action.
Furthermore, the Government showed clearly on several occasions inclinations towards un-constitutional behaviour, favouritism and neglect, which eroded trust in the Government, and, therefore, the Government does share blame for the actions of Governor Whiskers.

However, as I said, this is to be determined at a Court of law, if need be, after the crisis has passed and we can devote sufficient time for such discussion.

Right now, we should all pay attention to a possible threat to the State as the whole, as all present here have shown at least rudimentary respect for the Law and the Constitution, whereas any possible rebels would have none.

PS: When I say "can be argued" it does not in any case mean "it is so". The Government may use this clause as justification, however, we cannot judge actions not yet taken, and we cannot judge without being able to freely dedicate time and attention to the case.
We do have other matters at hand.



So you are saying do what I must now and then possibly be arrested later. Seems legit.

View user profile

231 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:55 pm

I will turn myself over peacefully to custody as long as I can be guaranteed I will not be found in my cell having committed suicide with a shot to the back of the head.

View user profile

232 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:56 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:I will turn myself over peacefully to custody as long as I can be guaranteed I will not be found in my cell having committed suicide with a shot to the back of the head.


Why would you think that would happen? we are not barbarians.


Director Infernal and President Grifen, your thoughts?. Does the good Governor deserve to be arrested for doing what he believes was his duty?.

View user profile

233 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:56 pm

No. I am saying, I will trust you to consider the legality of your actions knowing that they will be reviewed under Law.
There is no other way to solve a Crisis. We cannot argue legality like we would normally, since there is no time to do so, but we cannot just fling the Law out the window just because we're in a crisis.

This is, I believe, a serviceable compromise.

As an addendum, I am willing to intern Governor Whiskers and personally guerentee his incarceration at my home, as I believe he trusts me with his safety, if a fair and Constitutional trial will be promised to him.

View user profile

234 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:56 pm

Director Karbin Cry (NB) wrote:We should, for now, stop this quarrel. I know that both sides are doing what they feel just, yet we are hampered by our lack of knowledge pertaining to the situation.

We must clearly ascertain and prove the following:
- is there an armed rebellion against the State
- if there is, what are their goals, methods and strength
- the Government, as it is, must solve the problem
- after the problem is solved, we must review what happened in Court of Law - actions of both the Rebels, the Government, and everyone else involved, including Governor Whiskers

I do support Governor Whiskers, as the language used in the telegram sent by the Government was highly suggestive of a joint police-military action and it lacked any discussion or argumentation pertaining to the legality of such action.
Furthermore, the Government showed clearly on several occasions inclinations towards un-constitutional behaviour, favouritism and neglect, which eroded trust in the Government, and, therefore, the Government does share blame for the actions of Governor Whiskers.

However, as I said, this is to be determined at a Court of law, if need be, after the crisis has passed and we can devote sufficient time for such discussion.

Right now, we should all pay attention to a possible threat to the State as the whole, as all present here have shown at least rudimentary respect for the Law and the Constitution, whereas any possible rebels would have none.

PS: When I say "can be argued" it does not in any case mean "it is so". The Government may use this clause as justification, however, we cannot judge actions not yet taken, and we cannot judge without being able to freely dedicate time and attention to the case.
We do have other matters at hand.


The president, minister, and a director agree that is not "un-constitutional behaviour, favouritism and neglect".

View user profile

235 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:58 pm

Director Karbin Cry (NB) wrote:As an addendum, I am willing to intern Governor Whiskers and personally guerentee his incarceration at my home, as I believe he trusts me with his safety, if a fair and Constitutional trial will be promised to him.
I would agree to this, and you have my thanks.

View user profile

236 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:59 pm

Well, a Governor disagreed. The National Bank disagreed. Two co-authors of the Constitution pointed out flaws in several decisions made by the Government, one of them, if I may boast so, currently the greatest legal mind in Echain.

Regardless, an act unconstitutional is unconstitutional and wrong even if it is agreed upon unanimously.

View user profile

237 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:00 pm

Is it favouritism and neglect ?

View user profile

238 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:03 pm

Director Infernal, yes, it is favouritism, or at least seems like it, if you consider training national military by a personal armed force of a political party. Yes, it is favouritism if people who previously disagreed are being ignored simply for their dissent.

As for neglect, that was referring to the Minister of Finances and Transportation who couldn't be bothered to make a Budget as he was supposed to.

OOC: all in IC

View user profile

239 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:03 pm

That is it I have had enough of this.

I will be carrying on the original plan and if the courts find me guilty so be it.

Mr President and Director Infernal disavow my actions and I will accept full responsibility.

When this is done I will hand myself over to the court for judgment.

I will not let Echain fall no matter the cost on myself.

View user profile

240 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:04 pm

Karbin where does it say you have the power to hold a person who is accused of a crime ?

I thought your department was finance.

View user profile

241 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:07 pm

Considering something is not a crime Karbin.

View user profile

242 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:09 pm

Director Infernal, you may not aware of this but we have no proper jails anyways, and Governor Whiskers, understandably, doesn't trust the Government. I, as a neutral party he does trust, volunteered to intern him as a private citizen.
As I stated previously, I do make a difference between my function as a Director and the actions I take as an ordinary citizen (unlike you in at least one instance).

I urge you again, all of you, to drop your preconceived dissympathies, uneasiness and hatred, and let us work together, not accusing and arguing. We will have plenty of time to do that once the crisis at hand is solved.

OOC: "considering sthg is not a crime" - ever heard about conspiracy to commit murder? (this is OOC, my character did not react to this)



Last edited by Director Karbin Cry (NB) on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

View user profile

243 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:10 pm

I, as a neutral party he does trust,


That has not been determined by a judge.

View user profile

244 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:11 pm

Again

I will be carrying on the original plan and if the courts find me guilty so be it.
The President and Director Infernal will disavow my actions and I will accept full responsibility and when this is done I will hand myself over to the court for judgement. I will be the only one accountable for this.


Do all agree to these terms?.

I also support Director Karbin's proposition regarding Whiskey.

View user profile

245 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:12 pm

Infernal wrote:I, as a neutral party he does trust,


That has not been determined by a judge.

Well, he did agree to my proposal. Now the Government might think me biased, however, if I promise something, if I swear something, I will do it. I am nothing if not a man of my Word and Principle.

View user profile

246 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:13 pm

I urge you again, all of you, to drop your preconceived dissympathies, uneasiness and hatred, and let us work together, not accusing and arguing. We will have plenty of time to do that once the crisis at hand is solved.


No Karbin,

We cant any formation of response was made public by Wisky Wiskers.

View user profile

247 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:13 pm

Which has led us here.

View user profile

248 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:15 pm



That has not been determined by a judge.[/quote]

Well, he did agree to my proposal. Now the Government might think me biased, however, if I promise something, if I swear something, I will do it. I am nothing if not a man of my Word and Principle.[/quote]


I said the same thing and others accused me of lying.

View user profile

249 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:15 pm

So how are you different ?

View user profile

250 Re: Old Ministry of Defense on Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:17 pm

Director Infernal, as far as I see, Governor Whiskers said three things.
That it is known to the Government that Lurem will revolt, that the Government will not let them secede, and that the Government wants support of the Regions and their militias for the fight. The first two are known to the rebels regardless, and the third must have been considered by them as the most likely response.

As for any courts that will be had in the aftermath of this crisis, I will be preparing defense of both Governor Whiskers and Minister bradley3000, should they elect to let me be their attorney.

OOC: I didn't read through this entire discussion, so if you'd, Infernal, direct me to the occasion you are alluring to, it would be most appreciated.

View user profile

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 10 of 13]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum