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National Bills

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26 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:10 pm

Governor Mega Erox wrote:
Senator Bing Crosby (NPP) wrote:Payments to the Federal government, of course, will not be required until each region establishes their tax codes--this will happen sooner rather than later, for the region cannot hope to thrive, much less exist for a prolonged period of time, without a tax code. As for the payments to the federal government, we can add an addendum that explicitly determines the deadlines as well as the manner in which disbursements are sent back to the Federal level. Please let me know if this gives you more confidence in the bill, and please let me know if there is anything else I can clarify.

The problem I had was no' addressed. The problem was with the explicit

Bill001A wrote:in the form of tax revenue; in doing so, each Governor shall temporarily raise sales taxes by one-half of one percent, property taxes by two-fifths of one percent, and provincial taxes by three-fifths of one percent

If this is in 'ere, I can no' be supportin' the bill and will downvote it. I can no' be acceptin' the senate tellin' the regions 'ow to conduct their own taxes. We would be findin' the funds in our own manner.

If a one percent tax increase is too draconian for the regional governments, then what alternative is there to refund the federal government for the only portion of the act that does not benefit the nation? I am flexible on the methodology by which the repayments are made, and I am positive that we can come to an agreement.

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27 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:16 pm

The powers granted to you by the constitution. Taxes levied by the federal government in aid of national fiscal policy. You have no constitutional right to tell the regions how to set our tax codes or the way in which monies given to us are to be spent. If these are not agreed to, I will have no option but to ask this bill to be properly reviewed by the constitutional court, and the good senator to recuse himself from proceedings.

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28 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:20 pm

Senator Bing Crosby (NPP) wrote:If a one percent tax increase is too draconian for the regional governments, then what alternative is there to refund the federal government for the only portion of the act that does not benefit the nation? I am flexible on the methodology by which the repayments are made, and I am positive that we can come to an agreement.

It should be up to the region to decide. There does no' need to be anythin' tellin' us how to repay the loans other than time of payments. Do no' make us establish a regional sales tax if we do no' be 'avin' any intenion o' doin' so.

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29 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:25 pm

I support the bill in its current form

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30 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:25 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:The powers granted to you by the constitution. Taxes levied by the federal government in aid of national fiscal policy. You have no constitutional right to tell the regions how to set our tax codes or the way in which monies given to us are to be spent. If these are not agreed to, I will have no option but to ask this bill to be properly reviewed by the constitutional court, and the good senator to recuse himself from proceedings.

If you read further into the constitution, you will find the following passage:

"The Senate and the Council have together the power of setting taxes to fund causes the National Government has to take care of according to the Constitution, as well as the power of Law-Making, that is to say, they can vote on Laws and ratification of International Treaties, which pass by reaching simple majority of the vote." (Article V)

Bill 001A (if ratified, 001B) is piece of legislation (i.e. "Law"), which is a byproduct of the governmental process by which the Senate and Council of Governors work together at the national level (i.e. "Law-Making"); and, as such, "the Senate and the Council have together the power of setting taxes to fund causes." In this case, the "cause" is the reconstruction of the Echaini Republic. Should the Council of Governors approve this piece of legislation--which is written in accordance to Constitutional law and standards--a one-percent tax increase would be constitutional.

If, again, you do not personally accept such a Law, you may down-vote the bill; but, your personal ideological convictions do not make the bill unconstitutional. I urge the gentleman to be more careful in the future before accusing another Senator or Governor of acting in a way that goes against the Constitution (especially when said agent is one of the drafters of the Constitution).

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31 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:27 pm

Governor Mega Erox wrote:
Senator Bing Crosby (NPP) wrote:If a one percent tax increase is too draconian for the regional governments, then what alternative is there to refund the federal government for the only portion of the act that does not benefit the nation? I am flexible on the methodology by which the repayments are made, and I am positive that we can come to an agreement.

It should be up to the region to decide. There does no' need to be anythin' tellin' us how to repay the loans other than time of payments. Do no' make us establish a regional sales tax if we do no' be 'avin' any intenion o' doin' so.

Governor,

If we change the language to state that the repayment tax may be substantiated in any form as long as the tax rate totals no less than one percent (this also gives the regions the power to set the tax code higher if they can afford to repay at a higher, quicker rate), would this be a solution in your eyes?

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32 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:27 pm

Governor Chaos_Ryder wrote:I support the bill in its current form

I appreciate your unequivocal endorsement, Governor.

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33 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:39 pm

I think you will find senator that the council of governors is part of the federal government and any tax increase we pass is a federal tax. The council of governors is not merely a gathering of the governors so that you may bargain with the regions more effectively. This bill should be reviewed.

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34 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:45 pm

Senator Bing Crosby (NPP) wrote:Governor,

If we change the language to state that the repayment tax may be substantiated in any form as long as the tax rate totals no less than one percent (this also gives the regions the power to set the tax code higher if they can afford to repay at a higher, quicker rate), would this be a solution in your eyes?

I do no' know why the tax percentage needs to be specified. I do no' know offhand what the tax would need to be to fulfill a proper repayment. What does 1 percent e'en mean in the context o' property tax? Why does it need specification at all? All that it is required is the loan amount and a repayment schedule.

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35 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:45 pm

OOC: Before passing this to the Council of Governors, the bill was passed through an NPC court session (as that is the second step of the law making process--all bills must make it through the CC before it reaches the CoG) and greenlit by Arche, so sending it back to the CC is kind of a bust (the outcome will more than likely be the same).

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36 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:51 pm

OOC: I read the senate thread, it passed because of your advice. I would send it back with further advice from another framer, and if necessary bring KarbinCry in as well.



Last edited by Governor WhiskeyWhiskers on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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37 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:51 pm

Governor Mega Erox wrote:
Senator Bing Crosby (NPP) wrote:Governor,

If we change the language to state that the repayment tax may be substantiated in any form as long as the tax rate totals no less than one percent (this also gives the regions the power to set the tax code higher if they can afford to repay at a higher, quicker rate), would this be a solution in your eyes?

I do no' know why the tax percentage needs to be specified. I do no' know offhand what the tax would need to be to fulfill a proper repayment. What does 1 percent e'en mean in the context o' property tax? Why does it need specification at all? All that it is required is the loan amount and a repayment schedule.

So you suggest we do not specify mode of payment; rather, we specify that payments must be made back by a deadline? As long as the loans are paid back, I suppose it does not matter if the payments are in the form of specific taxes or locally raised pledges. The only reason I suggested taxes is because the rate will be in proportion to the region's ability to raise revenue (this is because Versberg's 1% tax will yield a greater amount of money than Lurem's 1%, but the revenue will be proportional to its ability to pay; whereas if the rate of payment is a flat sum, the regions stand a higher chance of not being able to repay on time). That said, I will stand behind a laissez faire approach to recuperating the costs of the loans if the regions believe this to be a more beneficial, legally oriented approach.

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38 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:53 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:OOC: I read the senate thread, it passed because of your advice. I held my tongue then because it was not my chambers. I would send it back with further advice from another framer, and if necessary bring KarbinCry in as well.

OOC: As far as I know, the other framers have all endorsed the proposed bill (Bradley, Karbin, and Grifen helped revise it).

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39 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:55 pm

Then they overlooked these issues. This is an open and shut case of federal over-reach.

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40 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Senator Bing Crosby (NPP) wrote:So you suggest we do not specify mode of payment; rather, we specify that payments must be made back by a deadline? As long as the loans are paid back, I suppose it does not matter if the payments are in the form of specific taxes or locally raised pledges. The only reason I suggested taxes is because the rate will be in proportion to the region's ability to raise revenue (this is because Versberg's 1% tax will yield a greater amount of money than Lurem's 1%, but the revenue will be proportional to its ability to pay; whereas if the rate of payment is a flat sum, the regions stand a higher chance of not being able to repay on time). That said, I will stand behind a laissez faire approach to recuperating the costs of the loans if the regions believe this to be a more beneficial, legally oriented approach.

'Ere do be what I suggest. There are two options for a region to take:

1) The current option in the bill
2) A custom repayment plan to be negotiated with the minster of Finances & Transportation

Is this acceptable?

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41 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:01 pm

Governor Mega Erox wrote:
Senator Bing Crosby (NPP) wrote:So you suggest we do not specify mode of payment; rather, we specify that payments must be made back by a deadline? As long as the loans are paid back, I suppose it does not matter if the payments are in the form of specific taxes or locally raised pledges. The only reason I suggested taxes is because the rate will be in proportion to the region's ability to raise revenue (this is because Versberg's 1% tax will yield a greater amount of money than Lurem's 1%, but the revenue will be proportional to its ability to pay; whereas if the rate of payment is a flat sum, the regions stand a higher chance of not being able to repay on time). That said, I will stand behind a laissez faire approach to recuperating the costs of the loans if the regions believe this to be a more beneficial, legally oriented approach.

'Ere do be what I suggest. There are two options for a region to take:

1) The current option in the bill
2) A custom repayment plan to be negotiated with the minster of Finances & Transportation

Is this acceptable?

This is absolutely acceptable.

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42 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:04 pm

I will no' be acceptin' the bill until I see what the amended version looks like, to ensure I do be OK with phrasing.

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43 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:04 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Then they overlooked these issues. This is an open and shut case of federal over-reach.

Governor Mega Erox wrote:
Senator Bing Crosby (NPP) wrote:So you suggest we do not specify mode of payment; rather, we specify that payments must be made back by a deadline? As long as the loans are paid back, I suppose it does not matter if the payments are in the form of specific taxes or locally raised pledges. The only reason I suggested taxes is because the rate will be in proportion to the region's ability to raise revenue (this is because Versberg's 1% tax will yield a greater amount of money than Lurem's 1%, but the revenue will be proportional to its ability to pay; whereas if the rate of payment is a flat sum, the regions stand a higher chance of not being able to repay on time). That said, I will stand behind a laissez faire approach to recuperating the costs of the loans if the regions believe this to be a more beneficial, legally oriented approach.

'Ere do be what I suggest. There are two options for a region to take:

1) The current option in the bill
2) A custom repayment plan to be negotiated with the minster of Finances & Transportation

Is this acceptable?

Governor Whiskey,

Governor Erox's proposal effectively neutralizes the problem of taxation for regions who do not want the federal government to influence their regional tax code yet leaves in the tax option for the more impoverished region who need to rely on an extremely rate of repayment due to economic instability. I believe, then, that this solves your problem.

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44 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:06 pm

Governor Mega Erox wrote:I will no' be acceptin' the bill until I see what the amended version looks like, to ensure I do be OK with phrasing.

I do not expect you to do so; however, I will not waste time amending a dead bill. So, once I have five provisional votes, I will implement everyone's suggestions and send it back to the governors. If I count your tentative vote, we need one more to reach the requisite simple majority rule.

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45 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:11 pm

Then you can be considerin' it a tentative vote.

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46 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:13 pm

I would still wait on constitutional advice on whether the federal government be able to dictate the way in which regional monies are spent. If this were merely a direct payment from the federal government to private businesses, this would not be an issue.

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47 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:17 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:I would still wait on constitutional advice on whether the federal government be able to dictate the way in which regional monies are spent. If this were merely a direct payment from the federal government to private businesses, this would not be an issue.

In short: If regional governments are given the freedom to disburse funds to either a) private, local businesses, or b) government offices who enlist workers, you will be willing to sign this piece of legislation?

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48 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:24 pm

OOC: I'll be leaving for a majority of the rest of the night in about five minutes, so sorry if I don't respond in a timely manner!

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49 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:30 pm

The Governor Agueda will also be awaiting on the amended wording to cast her vote.


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50 Re: National Bills on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:11 pm

I will also be waiting on the amended wording to cast my vote. The people of Northport are left with almost nothing but the clothes on our backs and the land we can work. While we are working on getting the mines back up and running, we are quite destitute at the moment.

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