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A Police Force

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1 A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:39 am

Honorable members of the senate,

As Director of Domestic Intelligence I personally implore you to establish a police force or volunteer police.

I can only do so much to protect this nation, I am not able to solve the day to day problems of this nation.

I do not want control of this new agency. I think unless we want law only by the gun and a open back door to Tyranny, we should establish no matter how small a National Echain police force.

Infernal
Director of Domestic Intelligence
Leader Of the Echain Autonomous Movement

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2 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:27 am

Police is constitutionally the responsibility and jurisdiction of the Region's, so, Director Infernal, you should address the Governors. Senate nor any other part of the National Government can make a police force of any kind.

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3 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:30 am

We also already have regional police forces set up. They're just not particularly professional.

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4 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:11 pm

I understand we have regional police force, the problem its that corruption and the chance for tyrannical rule will be a real possibility.

Justice will be whatever the governors want, not what represents the people.

All it would take is one governor to go far and we will have a peoples revolution. Then who would the Senate support the governor or the people ?


With an independent police force we could have transparency and legitimacy.
















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5 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:27 pm

Infernal wrote:I understand we have regional police force, the problem its that corruption and the chance for tyrannical rule will be a real possibility.

Justice will be whatever the governors want, not what represents the people.    

All it would take is one governor to go far and we will have a peoples revolution. Then who would the Senate support the governor or the people ?


With an independent police force we could have transparency and legitimacy.


If a Governor were to go rouge and become a tyrant believe me I would not sit idly by and allow him/her to do so. I would immediately detain said Governor trough the use of the armed forces and have the Governor put to trial. An independent police force is just as vulnerable to corruption perhaps even more so than the regional police force considering it would be a national organisation.

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6 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:32 pm

(MoD) Bradley3000 wrote:
Infernal wrote:


If a Governor were to go rouge and become a tyrant believe me I would not sit idly by and allow him/her to do so. I would immediately detain said Governor trough the use of the armed forces and have the Governor put to trial. An independent police force is just as vulnerable to corruption perhaps even more so than the regional police force considering it would be a national organisation.


So about 50 dead militia / 30 dead soldiers / untold dead civilians in the cross fire.  To arrest 1 person.

Sounds legit.  















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7 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:34 pm

So you would rather create an un-constitutional organisation with untold powers that is just as corruptible as the thing you wish to ward against? Also the Constitution clearly outlines the rights of the people which no police force can go against.

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8 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:36 pm

Well a national police force would uphold the law and would not be as well armed as militia or soldiers making insurrection suicidal.

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9 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:39 pm

Infernal wrote:Well a national police force would uphold the law and would not be as well armed as militia or soldiers making insurrection suicidal.

It would not matter if it was the greatest and least corrupt police force ever created. It is literally un-Constitutional.

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10 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:41 pm

The senate could alter the constitution, which is why im here.

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11 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:42 pm

The matter of the police is in the hands of the regions. What you are asking for is unconstitutional. If a governor was to go rogue, he would be dealt with using the army as that is their purpose.

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12 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:01 pm

OOC: So who's job is it to Police Federal law? What if a Region decide that blood sports are pretty rad and legalize it in their Region either officially by law or unofficially by not enforcing law? Am I going to get to do a Battle Royal/Hunger Games Style reality TV show in order to cash in on all the ratings?

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13 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:05 pm

OOC: regional police has to enforce national law as well.

and stop using federal - Echain is not a federation and there is nothing "federal" in it


Furthermore, State as a whole, including the Regions, must conform to the Constitution. The diferring levels of legal standing are documented therein.

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14 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:42 pm

OOC: LOOK EVERYONE!!! He's not actually complaining about me creating the Hunger Games in order to sate the masses! That's implicit permission!

Also, isn't the definition of Federal: "a system of government in which several states form a unity but remain independent in internal affairs." exactly what is happening here or are we going to dress it up as something else?

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15 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:49 pm

OOC: that would be scientific definition, but there are official federacies which are not scientifically federations and vice versa.
The problem is that the Constitution does not say Federal, so any law mentioning federalism is easy to attack on these grounds (for example the budget...)

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16 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:01 pm

OOC: I say yay to the hunger games. Send all your uzi wielding preteens in, Gollvieg.

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17 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:04 pm

OOC: You're laughing, but we literally have no criminal code. I could kill you and it wouldn't be a crime.

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18 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:13 pm

OOC: Do we have the death sentence?

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19 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:17 pm

OOC: Death punishment is constitutionally banned.

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20 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:29 pm

OOC: yeah... can we just assume that the thousands of judges and lawyer ppl that Lorerunner is running are on the job of setting up the Criminal code or are we going to waste time trying to set up a legal code one by one. @Lorerunner can we get a GM ruling on this or are we going to play be the assumption that by some horrible disaster, this country haven't had a legal code that is more then, "The King Said So" and that the country is playing Post Apocalypse Warlords this entire time we are arguing over budget?

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21 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:38 pm

Gollvieg wrote:OOC: yeah... can we just assume that the thousands of judges and lawyer ppl that Lorerunner is running are on the job of setting up the Criminal code or are we going to waste time trying to set up a legal code one by one. @Lorerunner can we get a GM ruling on this or are we going to play be the assumption that by some horrible disaster, this country haven't had a legal code that is more then, "The King Said So" and that the country is playing Post Apocalypse Warlords this entire time we are arguing over budget?

I believe that would make our lives a lot easier unless you all want to sit down for a week straight and establish a criminal code...

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22 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:41 pm

No laws pre-constitution have any legal standing.

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23 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:42 pm

President Grifenknight wrote:
Gollvieg wrote:OOC: yeah... can we just assume that the thousands of judges and lawyer ppl that Lorerunner is running are on the job of setting up the Criminal code or are we going to waste time trying to set up a legal code one by one. @Lorerunner can we get a GM ruling on this or are we going to play be the assumption that by some horrible disaster, this country haven't had a legal code that is more then, "The King Said So" and that the country is playing Post Apocalypse Warlords this entire time we are arguing over budget?

I believe that would make our lives a lot easier unless you all want to sit down for a week straight and establish a criminal code...

Please don't.... Sad
I do not think a full on self formed criminal code will be necessary

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24 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:50 pm

OOC: Karbin that makes no sense, it literally creates a state of lawlessness during the most critical period in the nation's history. I don't believe that can be true. Even Vietnam kept the French law intact when they threw out the French for the first few years.

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25 Re: A Police Force on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:53 pm

OOC: I believe we should just use a pre-established legal code (GM approved). That is unless Karbin wants to establish the whole entire legal code with a committee, which I am willing to partake in.

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