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PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors

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1 PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:25 am

Here anyone can put up their bill and seek a Senator to sponsor it and bring it to the floor.

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2 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:25 am

Immigration Reform

To help the National Government with the refugee crisis, and since it directly affect the Bank, our legal experts have drafted a bill detailing the status of refugees and path to Citizenship.
Here is said proposal. The Bank will now seek a senator to sponsor the bill and bring it to the Senate floor.

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3 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:35 am

I cannibalized your bill, and made this version:
Here

I'll introduce it to the Senators for later discussion.

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4 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:45 am

If refugees are protected by the constitution at all times then Governors are constitutionally not allowed to refuse them entry to their regions, that would have to be a national decision.

I would also argue against refoulement specifically of asylum seekers who have committed crimes. Sending them back to be persecuted or killed is unethical in the extreme, and a far greater crime for the state to commit then whatever earned them a 2 month+ sentence. Remembering we believe freedom from the death penalty is an inalienable right.

I would also ask that we change how we are using certain terms. A displaced person is someone fleeing danger in their home country, but not necessarily applying for asylum, they may intend to return to their home country when the danger has passed. Asylum Seeker is fine, but refugee is someone who has had their asylum granted. Someone not fleeing danger who intends to stay in Echain is more properly an immigrant. I'm not sure this bill should focus on immigration in a broad sense and should instead limit itself to matters of humanitarian immigration.



Last edited by Governor WhiskeyWhiskers on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:16 pm; edited 2 times in total

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5 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:59 am

The legal experts of the Bank have more than a couple problems with Honourable senator Adamemnon's, as he put it, canibalized version of the bill.
The largest stems from the provision that refugees are protected by the Constitution at all times.

This means majority of the bill becomes outright unconstitutional. Here follows a list of the gravest of transgretions:

  • Refugees are required to stay in particular areas as chartered by the President, his Cabinet, and the relevant Governor - contradicts Article Three
  • Refugees do not have the ability to vote nor any other such privilege. - contradicts Article Three
  • The relevant Governor(s) can decide to not accept refugees in their region. - contradicts Article Three
  • The refugee, region, or a private entity must pay a national tax equivalent to 10E (Espada) per person to the federal government. - contradicts Article Three
  • Payment of a 20E national tax per person - contradicts Article Three
  • Signing up to serve in the Echain national armed forces for 4 years immediately grants the applicant citizen status for themselves and their direct family. Any family granted citizenship this way must reside in a region of Echain. - contradicts Article Two (depends on "applicant citizen" status which is undefined)
  • After 4 years of service, the citizen statuses become permanent. - contradicts Article Two

That is to say this variant of the bill does not have the endorsement of the Bank, and the Bank will seek other Senators to bring to the floor a proposal that at least doesn't break the Constitution, and is intrnally consistent.

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6 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:08 pm

Not necessarily true Karbin, if refugees were considered 'lawfully imprisoned' by this bill, wouldn't the government have the right to restrict their movement? The rest is still unconstitutional though.

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7 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:14 pm

Well, then the bill should say that they are incarcerated (although for which crime?). The same goes for "applicant citizenship" - it may have such nature that the section containing it isn't unconstitutional, unfortunately the bill lacks any definition of the term.

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8 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:13 pm

This is good. I will revise the bill.

OOC: You should all have Comment access to the bill, but the edits seem to be large swaths so I can take care of that.



Last edited by Adamemnon on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : more)

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9 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:39 pm

I have made some suggestions which I think will bring your bill closer to constitutionality, while not damaging your intent.

I look forward to trying to expand that right to asylum when it reaches the Governor's Chambers.

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10 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:57 pm

The Bank still disagrees with the fees. The constitution states there are only two ways to fund the Budget:
"Direct and universal tax on personal income (including wages, dividends and rents), whose
size has to be mandated in each Budget and cannot be codified otherwise;
Borrowing money, which is only a temporary measure and all loans must be repaid in the
following Budget, which cannot include funding through borrowing, because dependency on
money-lenders would, in time, give them disproportionate power over the State."
Further, it adds emmission of currency from the National Bank.

However, such fees cannot be placed into the general Budget. Now, they could be used as a payment for a service, but then it would have to be in ESP - not any other currency - which would mean individual immigrants would often have no way of paying it.

Upon seeing two oversights in the Bank's proposition - namely the question of funding the refugee camps and how long can a refugee stay in Echain without residency, resulting in re-writing of Article II.

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11 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:01 pm

You could always just set up currency exchanges in the camps. That's hardly a problem.

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12 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:04 pm

Depends Whisky Wiskers you never know when some fool will tear a thing down for personal gain.

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13 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:10 pm

The problem, honourable Governor, is that the law does not mandate accessibility of exchanges, and that many refugees are simply too poor to afford such fee.
I understand the Governments wish to shake those people for every penny, but it would do us good to see the bigger picture. The Government will gain far more in the long run if it helps refugees become citizens rather than putting fees on citizenship.

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14 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:42 pm

I am not working to make this a good bill, just one that keeps the intent of the author and can be presented to the senate as at least being constitutional.

I dislike many of Adamemnon's additions, but he is the only senator willing to sponsor the bill at the moment.

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15 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:18 pm

OOC: He's also the first Senator to see the proposal. Wink

Suddenly a loud shout echos throughout the Government Building, "MAIL MOTHER%*#$ERS!"

*BOOM* the door to the room is vaporized into sawdust as an 8ft tall colossus of a man stride through the dust, his form accentuated by rippling muscle barely contained by the Echain Ranger Uniform he wears, it's color designating him as a 6th grader. Several Guards desperately cling onto him as if they were ants swarming a preying mantis. The ranger is unconcerned as he casually throws men off him gently into the hallway behind.

"YOU HAVE MAIL FROM THE DIRECTOR!" the Ranger shouts, his veins pulsating against his thick neck. He slams his fist onto the table you are sitting at, pulverizing it and leaving behind an indentation in the ground... and a single post-it note saying:

"Can we not try to exploit people who literally have no money" -Gollvieg

The Ranger Exits the building through the walls, creating new entrances and completely unfazed by the meager resistance the guards can give him.

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16 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:30 pm

Infernal wrote:Depends Whisky Wiskers you never know when some fool will tear a thing down for personal gain.

Glad to know our Director of Intelligence leaves easily incriminating statements around, wouldn't want me knocking over those exchanges and using this to blame you now, would we?

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17 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:54 pm

ooc: Read what you write W.W. that makes no sense.

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18 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:58 pm

Gollvieg wrote:"Can we not try to exploit people who literally have no money" -Gollvieg
Aye, agreed. I do be 'avin' other problems with the bill as well. There should be clauses that allow gov'ners to bestow citizen status to those 'o do no' be meetin' the requirements but would be great for service to the Echain.

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19 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:42 pm

The Bank's proposal was further amended so that Residency now requires also an approval of the Region that Resident wishes to settle.
I believe that solves Governor Erox's complaint. Residency is the first step toward citizenship, and is required so that the foreigner truly understands what it is to be Echaini.

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20 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:55 pm

Gentlemen due to the lack of Espada and the need to have the Refugees that wish to settle set up their own economy as quickly as possible. My I propose that the Island of Grain be declared as a Special Economic Zone. Where the Yen could still be used for local trading. These people came with everything they had and it is not possible to assume that they have the ability to barter with the last possessions that they own. I will try to help them get a fishery and trade dock up and running ASAP and in the meantime I am trying to see if there is enough factory workers to start building heavy machinary for domestic comsumption.

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21 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:26 pm

I believe the bank should establish a currency exchange as soon as possible. This would help get rid of the reliance of yen in areas such as Lurem and allow the refugees to exchange their yens for espadas. This is just a recommendation, but an important one, if that.

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22 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:05 pm

That only works if we had enough Espadas to go around

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23 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:08 pm

The Bank has to put Espada first. This means we can only buy currency that is a) universally international tradeable, b) stable and strong and c) internationally recognized.

Yen is a) refused by most of the world, b) weak and fluctuating and c) isn't even really backed by any government, considering Japan is under occupation.

That is to say, of all currencies, the Bank will not and cannot (Constitutionally) buy Yen.

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24 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:16 pm

Okay, that is understandable.

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25 Re: PUBLIC: Bills seeking Sponsors on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:28 am

Director Karbin Cry (NB) wrote:The Bank's proposal was further amended so that Residency now requires also an approval of the Region that Resident wishes to settle.
I believe that solves Governor Erox's complaint. Residency is the first step toward citizenship, and is required so that the foreigner truly understands what it is to be Echaini.

I did no' be wantin' an extra requirement, but allow for special cases where a gov'nor can grant citizenship for extenuatin' circumstances.

Also, shouldn't there be a an exception to the revokin' o' old citizenships for countries that do no' let citizens revoke their citizenship?

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