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Council of Governors

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101 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:51 am

OOC: Wait PALACE, you never metioned a palace

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102 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:54 am

OOC: Wait PALACE, you never metioned a palace


OOC: The Echainn Autonomous Movement did some rebuilding of City Central part of the price was 5 rooms in the palace.



Last edited by Infernal on Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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103 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:56 am

The Chair will remind individuals present that thanks to certain, drastic changes, the nature of budgets has been reverted until fully established and codified. As such he has more or less decided that the current Currency amounts are invalid. If the Chair needs to simply slam a hammer down stating what current Currency amounts are, he can and will do so.


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104 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:38 am

Well... Felix? Very Happy

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105 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:49 am

Then you'll have to wait on your answer until we have a budget Nerozaz.

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106 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:52 am

OOC: Question if I find any information wher should I post it and should it be private?

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107 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:55 am

OOC: There's a delegates subforum. I suppose ask Lore for a hidden thread to be made in there with all governors and warwager being made members.

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108 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:12 pm

Concerning food rationing... yes please! As far as I'm concerned, black market profiteering is a matter for law enforcement. At this time, we're all undergoing hardship. I would therefore suggest extra measures to be taken concerning violations of food rationing. We should also consider to have community volunteers, such as militiamen, be compensated with additional ration stamps.

The matter of increasing our national agricultural output should be a key national goal, as far as I'm concerned. We should be looking at ways to encourage mechanization and intensifying agriculture, at the very least.

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109 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:17 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:I'll reiterate my off in case someone missed it as I edited into my post.

The regional government of Plainsdale will purchase all foodstuffs sold by our farmers and will be redeeming all vouchers across the island for free, if you remove the ability for the exchange of vouchers.

Are you trying to strong-arm other Governors into accepting and promoting your economic policies?
As I stated previously, the method of implementation of voucher trading will be influential in setting up our economy. As such, by following your suggestion, we'd be nationally implementing socialist economical practices.

However, I am content with adding a paragraph about voucher trading which would include the Region's right to determine what form it takes in their confines, or if it will take any form at all.

OOC: And here I thought I'd finish my backstory before posting here again Wink



Last edited by Felix Clary zu Osegg on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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110 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:17 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:It amuses me greatly that the idea that private businesses profiting off the failures of a government program so outraged governors earlier, but now that gouging of prices is an intended consequence of another program governor Gollvieg says nary a peep.

And to think some believe themselves free of ideology.

OOC: Jesus Christ guys, can you all not assume that not answering for a few hours is somehow canon in game. Some of us still needs 4 hours of sleep you know

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111 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:25 pm

I will feed the nation for free in return for making sure our most vulnerable are not exploited by private interests.

Please explain in detail how this is strong-arming?

Your proposed compromise does not meet the standards of preventing that exploitation.

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112 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:30 pm

Governor Gollvieg wrote:OOC: Jesus Christ guys, can you all not assume that not answering for a few hours is somehow canon in game. Some of us still needs 4 hours of sleep you know

OOC: Sleep is for the weak.

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113 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:30 pm

You are using your Region's agriculture to force other regions into adopting what would essentially be a wholly nationalised agricultural system.

As I said, I am willing to make the compromise of leaving the matter of voucher exchange to the deliberation of the Regions, so you may implement what you will - and what your Assembly lets you - in your Region.

And now you cry again about exploitation, yet you're yet to even explain how it would occur in any arrangement of the exchange system. Let's debate facts and arguments, not empty rhetoric.

I already opined that I strongly believe the contours of the system of economy should be left to the Region's, lest we tempt disaster.

OOC: You edited your post while I was writing this, so please wait until I edit this one to reflect your change.



Last edited by Felix Clary zu Osegg on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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114 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:32 pm

I'm doing no such thing. They can reject this deal and continue with your plan where individuals would have to purchase that food. I merely offer a more equitable alternative for everyone at my region's own cost.

If I purchase food from my region's farmers and pay for that with my region's budget and offer it for free, why should a middle man buying and selling stamps make profit from my region's hard work?

If I don't and we continue with people purchasing food we will end up with people going hungry so that they can sell their stamps to the already wealthy, in order to secure other goods.



Last edited by Governor WhiskeyWhiskers on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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115 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:36 pm

"The regional government of Plainsdale will purchase all foodstuffs sold by our farmers and will be redeeming all vouchers across the island for free, if you remove the ability for the exchange of vouchers."

This I read to mean that if the proposed act is changed so no voucher can be exchangeable, then you'd somehow buy all the food produced in your Region (which, if I'm blunt, is quite a bold, nigh impossible, promise to make).

If it means that your proposal would work with the current law, then why'd you dissent against my compromise, which would allow just that?

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116 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:38 pm

Because it allows for middle-men to profit off my region's generosity.

When I'm offering to buy food and undercut farmers by giving it away, there's not a chance in hell a bushel doesn't get sold to me.

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117 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:51 pm

I will offer a compromise of my own, if each region pays for its own share of food to be rationed for free, they can set their own policy towards voucher exchange.

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118 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:55 pm

As a quick point of order. The Chair has abolished and destroyed all previous groups and... private rooms. A new one can be created for governmental business, but should it purely be for the Council and the Intelligence Director? Or should Delegates be included? Or should the Secretary of Defense be included?


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119 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:57 pm

The Lorerunner wrote:As a quick point of order.  The Chair has abolished and destroyed all previous groups and... private rooms.  A new one can be created for governmental business, but should it purely be for the Council and the Intelligence Director?  Or should Delegates be included?  Or should the Secretary of Defense be included?

Please include the Governors, the DoD and the DoI. We need a private room for critical sensitive information. Delegates can be added on a need to know basis

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120 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:57 pm

Council and SoD, would be my call.

^^Actually yeah that.

Can we make it pink again? I miss my colour already.

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121 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:01 pm

So what do you actually propose:
A) no exchangeable vouchers
B) that regions who prohibit exchange of voucher will get food from you for free

In fact I believe you misunderstand how the vouchers even work, so I'll try to explain it once more.

You buy food for Espada, but to be able to buy the food, you must have a voucher in your name for that food.
Say 100g of butter costs 10 Espada. You have 10 Espada, and voucher for 100g of butter. You give both 10 Espada and the voucher, and get butter.
If you have only 10 Espada but not the voucher, you can't buy the butter.
If you have only the voucher but not 10 Espada, you can't buy the butter.

There are two basic types of vouchers.
Vouchers that cannot be exchanged cover enough food for a man to subsist on. He cannot exchange these vouchers, he cannot get rid of them. Provided he has Espada, he can always buy this elemental amount of food.

Then there are vouchers that can be exchanged. They are for more expensive foods, like meat (these goods will occasionally be in the mandatory, nonexchangeable vouchers, but less frequently).
This is good for two reasons.
People who are poor couldn't afford that meat, and so if they had no use for these vouchers, they would be pointless.
People who are rich couldn't use their money to buy meat.

See, this rationing completely restricts demand. It restricts how much food, and of which type, can each person buy for money.
Without allowing exchange of vouchers for expensive items, either the prices would drop beneath profitability, or that food would simply rot.
If we return to the example with meat, it would devastate our livestock industry, and it would be recovering for years.

Now you don't want exchange of vouchers to apply in your region, and that is fine, but I will not allow the system to be perverted to the first brick in a national socialised economy.

As for your compromise it is also not acceptable. How can you guarantee to be able to buy all food production in your entire region? This compromise would mean that your failure to do so would destroy the system.

My compromise allows for the outcome you want, allowing you to make bilateral treaties with other Governors, in which they'd forbid exchanges and you'd give them free food, yet the whole system would not collapse as soon as you'd lose the ability to buy up the food supply.

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122 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:14 pm

I'm not proposing to do any of that. You introduced this bill claiming this would be a short term measure, which would be why you structured it as you did. I am offering to purchase food and give it away for free. This is not a trick. I am not secretly going to extend this policy. I simply don't want people having to purchase scarce amounts of food. This is not a basis for a socialist economy.

As for expensive items, that's why I'd be purchasing them. To maintain demand.

I can guarantee I can purchase all the food, because most of this country's food production is done by a single agricultural cooperative. I'm giving food away. The market price will plummet, of course they'll sell to me, it's the far more stable course of action and your bill contains clauses regarding speculation and hoarding.

This allows people to not have to worry about food and can stimulate the more fragile parts of the economy by freeing up money for consumer goods.

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123 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:27 pm

Let me get this straight. You will buy out all the food in Plainsdale with some money (and I strongly doubt your Region has enough money to buy all of it). All this so people wouldn't have to buy food.

Well, if it looks like fully socialised centralised economy and sounds like it, it might be a socialist centrally-controlled economy.

Also, with your changes, the rationing would be nigh-irrepealable. Transition from a completely socialised and subsidised agriculture to a market one (on the national level) would be infeasible (it would almost surely lead to famine).
Thus we'd be stuck with a socialised agriculture forever.

I do believe you have the best of intentions, but you're being not only naive, but you're overstepping your bounds as a Governor in your form of naive idealism.

OOC: Please, try not to edit your posts the minute you post them. Next time, I'll just quote the original version and disregard the changes. If I can take the time with my posts so they don't need "day one patches" so can you, methinks.

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124 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:32 pm

This is ridiculous. It's simple humanitarianism. A donation. I am purchasing goods with money. I am giving them away. There is no secret central planning behind any of this. At most it's a subsidy to my region's farmers.

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125 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:36 pm

What's humanitarism and donation coming from a private individual is socialism coming from a Government.

Whe a private individual buys something and gives it away, it's simple. When a Government vows to maintain a de facto monopoly by buying out a specific set of goods for a specific price and then gives them away, it's central planning in its most invasive form.

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