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Council of Governors

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51 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:47 am

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:Also, one aspect you failed to see, is that if a poor person sells his exchangeable rations, he may use that Espada however he wants to, so he could, for example, buy shoes, or clothes, or whatever; if he had only in-exchangeable food vouchers which would be exchanged directly for food, he'd perhaps have pies, but he'd still be freezing wet on the streets with but rags and makeshift clogs.

Actually that's my main issue with it. I would prefer we were able to provide both and remove the need for wasteful time spent looking for people to sell stamps to, when those people could be working productively instead.

It's a perverse incentive.

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52 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:49 am

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:As for the question of relaxing voucher system to categorical, and not an exact one, I must still insist on the, perhaps hard and cold, but also true and tested system of exact foods in exact quantity.
This system has been shown to work sufficiently in Europe during both World Wars, and even with the Japanese bureaucrats, I do not believe we have the capacity to maintain a system infinitely more complex than the one I proposed.
Even if we had capacity to do so, we must weight the costs and the benefits; and here I believe the added cost to be too great and for doubtful gain, especially since we'll need administrative capacity for other issues as well - for example the administration of refugees.

I haven't noticed the error in my copy of NEA; it seems some copies were poorly transcribed. I've hence corrected the word "least" to the word "most" so the meaning is clear.

I understand your argument and agree with your conclusion. Would food items outside the Rationing booklet be:

1) Subject to rationing

2) not allowed to be sold

3) or Is open to a free market

I ask because I am encountering issues with the Japanese Refugees bringing in... novel ingredients and cooking styles and it is hard to lock down rice since it is such a huge part of their diet.

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53 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:53 am

If we are willing to allow trading of stamps, why not simply allow the two tradable stamps to be exchanged for Espada directly?

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54 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:08 am

There would be a list of items included in the rationing system; everything outside that system would be open to free market.
This list, however, should be comprehensive.

As for trading vouchers directly for Espada, the National government shouldn't do this, since it would defeat the purpose of those vouchers, and it would also threaten to deplete the Government's coffers.
Regions may institute such exchanges on their own, but I believe that there will be private ones established as well.

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55 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:17 am

The vouchers are for specifically restricting access to certain goods right? Not for necessarily making them more available? Only people who redeem vouchers have access to those specific items? If that's the case, then trading for espada makes sense for anyone who would have sold them to someone else anyway. And we're still trying to circulate espada, it seems the simplest way to get it circulating easier.

What benefits are there to private exchanges being set up? How would that help us or the people? It sounds like a disaster just waiting for rampant speculation to happen.

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56 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:59 am

This rationing system works on the principle of constricting and directing demand. Both serve to make items more available, especially to the underprivileged.
Problem with the Government buying vouchers is that the Government has no use for them, i.e. these vouchers are removed from circulation, which further strangles demand, especially for luxury foods - meats, for example - which could devastate our agricultural sector in the long-term, leaving it without important sectors. Furthermore, the Government would expend Espada and get nothing in return; vouchers have no value to the Government.
On the other hand, private or semi-private (Regional) exchanges could then sell them on, thus getting Espada back, as well as keeping stable demand for luxury foods. It's simple economics.

As for your fears of speculation, we could restrict exchangeable vouchers to be valid for two months, and mandatory vouchers to be valid for a month.

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57 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:07 am

Nerozaz who had been listening rises from his chair and speaks

"Gentleman why I understand the importance of what you are discussing. I came here to discuss my agency".

"As you all know I recently took over Domestic intelligence. The previous Director cleaned it all out when he left thus leaving it all a mess which I have to clean up. Which is why I appear before you all today, I wish to discuss the budget of Domestic intelligence. How much is the government willing to give to restore DI"?

"If any of you are having doubts about giving my agency a budget, than I would like to remind you all that right now with the situation in the country you will need my agency. And not just within this country. Other nations have already put their greasy paws on Echain, and if we are going to find out who inside our country are being supported than the DI has to be rebuilt".

"The DI must expand not just focusing on keeping Echain safe from opportunists, but also from other nations".

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58 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:08 am

OOC: Sorry, but I was asleep and unable to join the discussion. Can I have a recap of what is going on? Very Happy

By recap, I mean votes and propositions.

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59 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:10 am

Why would we want to create a parasitic industry for a program we hope is only around for the short term? The people running the private exchanges could be employed far more effectively elsewhere.

Look, don't worry about rationing. I will subsidise my primary producers and keep food affordable for the nation. All I require is help in my efforts towards mechanisation so that crop yields can be increased.



Last edited by Governor WhiskeyWhiskers on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:19 am; edited 2 times in total

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60 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:12 am

Before any talk of the DoI can begin will you pledge that all information you uncover will be shared with all governors freely and without prejudice?

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61 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:19 am

OOC: alright, I'll be the protocolary once more:

1st Session of the Council - 3.1

Propositions

  • Bill 001A Act - WhiskeyWhiskers - Tabled (by WhiskeyWhiskers)
  • Strong Espada Act - Felix Clary - Discussed (most contentious, especially rationing)
  • New Echaini Act - Felix Clary (written by late Karbin Cry) - Discussion finished (the three acts are interdependent, so change in one would mean change in the others; will be voted upon after all three are properly discussed)
  • Refugee Allocation and Integration Act - Felix Clary - Waiting for discussion


If you have a proposal, please call it Something Something Act, so it will be a numbered Bill only after it passes. It's so that it's easier.

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62 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:21 am

"I Nerozaz, known as agent Corsair 1 swear that as Director of Domestic intelligence that I will share all information with all legally appointed governors freely and without prejudice"

"There do I have to swear on the bible too"?

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63 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:21 am

OOC:Isn't it usually the opposite though? Bills are proposed acts. And I suck at coming up with catchy names.

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64 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:24 am

Nerozaz wrote:"I Nerozaz, known as agent Corsair 1 swear that as Director of Domestic intelligence that I will share all information with all legally appointed governors freely and without prejudice"

"There do I have to swear on the bible too"?

No, we have full freedom of religion in Echain. The constitution will do well enough.

Now as to your department's budget, would you submit a proposal listing your needs so that we might have your opinion first?

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65 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:26 am

OOC: How detailed does it have to be? Do I only need to say what I need or do you want reasons as well?

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66 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:26 am

Reasons would be nice.

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67 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:27 am

Therein lies the rub. See, voucher exchanges are brilliant because they can generate profit. Now, the National Government shouldn't have one, but, if a Region wishes to have a more socialised economy, they can do so and accumulate capital for social initiatives, whereas Regions which favour market economy can leave it to the free market, and thus allow industrious people (exchanges will have extremely low initial costs) to accumulate capital which they can then invest.
That's why the National Government shouldn't create a national exchange - it would push socialised economy on the entire Echain.

The rationing system is necessary, as our production barely sates the nation, and we have a lot of refugees coming; to add to that, food production is highly centralised in a few areas, meaning without a rationing system, food would be extremely expensive in less agricultural areas. You wouldn't know that from Plainsdale, obviously.

And as for oaths, they are to be held on the Constitution, Governor Whiskers is correct.

OOC: I think in the US system, "Acts" are propositions and passed laws. Really, it's semantics, but say proposition called "Bill 001" fails, and right after that someone else proposes a law, Bill 001, because there isn't a passed Bill 001. Or he could propose Bill 002, skip 001, which then would make the list of passed laws look like ementaler Very Happy

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68 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:27 am

Can I just mention gentleman that with 4 votes for and 1 abstention WarWager17 has become the Secretary of Defence.

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69 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:29 am

1st Session of the Council - 3.1

Propositions
  • Bill 001A Act - WhiskeyWhiskers - Tabled (by WhiskeyWhiskers)
  • Strong Espada Act - Felix Clary - Discussed (most contentious, especially rationing)
  • New Echaini Act - Felix Clary (written by late Karbin Cry) - Discussion finished (the three acts are interdependent, so change in one would mean change in the others; will be voted upon after all three are properly discussed)
  • Refugee Allocation and Integration Act - Felix Clary - Waiting for discussion

Appointments
  • WarWager for Delegate of Defense - Bradley3000 - Voting - 4 for, 0 against, 1 abstained
  • Krenzler for Delegate of Defense - Bradley3000 - Voting - 0 for, 4 against, 1 abstained



Last edited by Felix Clary zu Osegg on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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70 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:34 am

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:

1st Session of the Council - 3.1



Propositions

  • Bill 001A Act - WhiskeyWhiskers - Tabled (by WhiskeyWhiskers)
  • Strong Espada Act - Felix Clary - Discussed (most contentious, especially rationing)
  • New Echaini Act - Felix Clary (written by late Karbin Cry) - Discussion finished (the three acts are interdependent, so change in one would mean change in the others; will be voted upon after all three are properly discussed)
  • Refugee Allocation and Integration Act - Felix Clary - Waiting for discussion

Appointments

  • WarWager for Delegate of Defense - Bradley3000 - Voting - 4 for, 0 against, 1 abstained
  • Krenzler for Delegate of Defense - Bradley3000 - Voting - 0 for, 4 against, 1 abstained




Just a heads up the person in charge of Defence was decided not to be a delegate as it is a much more important position. They have their own Department of Defence and are know as Secretary.

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71 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 am

I vote for War Wager anyways.

To Felix:  Acts are the bills that pass, from what I am aware.  You skip bill001 if it doesn't pass unless you adapt it.  I think that's how it works anyways.

To whiskey:  The problem with mechanization is that it will take time.  We cannot allow our people to starve until you "set up"  your production.

Votes:
Bill001- Nay
Warwager-Yay

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72 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 am

It amuses me greatly that the idea that private businesses profiting off the failures of a government program so outraged governors earlier, but now that gouging of prices is an intended consequence of another program governor Gollvieg says nary a peep.

And to think some believe themselves free of ideology.

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73 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:39 am

To but simple the agency is a mess. The last Director had started to get the DI HQ up and running it did not last with the sudden rebel attck on Central. So he left and took with him as much as possible which was alrady little from the beginning.

While the HQ was not hit during the rebel attacks a lot of construction work was left undone and many rooms lack furniture as well as personal. I need a budget to start work again and hire employees. I need to hire more agents since right now I only have one and myself to work with. Personal and agents need a salary even if only a small it should be enough to put food on their tables.

Lastly I need a bigger armory. Right now all I got are pistols, ammo and some field equipment for less than 10 people. Am not asking for The most advanced weapons in the world but enough for training and field work.

Any questions?

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74 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:39 am

President Grifenknight wrote:To whiskey:  The problem with mechanization is that it will take time.  We cannot allow our people to starve until you "set up"  your production.

We have enough food. We simply need to keep it affordable. I will subsidise farmers and implement price controls until production can be raised.

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75 Re: Council of Governors on Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:41 am

Nerozaz wrote:To but simple the agency is a mess. The last Director had started to get the DI HQ up and running it did not last with the sudden rebel attck on Central. So he left  and took with him as much as possible which was alrady little from the beginning.

While the HQ was not hit during the rebel attacks a lot of construction work was left undone and many rooms lack furniture as well as personal. I need a budget to start work again and hire employees. I need to hire more agents since right now I only have one and myself to work with. Personal and agents need a salary even if only a small it should be enough to put food on their tables.

Lastly I need a bigger armory. Right now all I got are pistols, ammo and some field equipment for less than 10 people. Am not asking for The most advanced weapons in the world but enough for training and field work.

Any questions?

Doesn't sound like much, I'm sure we'll be able to find the funds. Any objections from the other governors?

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