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Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget

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26 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:03 pm

Will state-owned industries and businesses be taken into account in a region's revenue?

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27 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:01 pm

I have a question for the GM, what if we want to set the Tax rate for international goods to be 8% while domestic goods to be 0%?

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28 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:22 pm

Governor Gollvieg wrote:I have a question for the GM, what if we want to set the Tax rate for international goods to be 8% while domestic goods to be 0%?

Those are tariffs, if I understand correctly, and they have their own column.

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29 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:24 pm

Taxes for foreign goods would be tariffs. If you mean produced by foreign companies in Echain...I dont know.

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30 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:02 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:
Governor Gollvieg wrote:I have a question for the GM, what if we want to set the Tax rate for international goods to be 8% while domestic goods to be 0%?

Those are tariffs, if I understand correctly, and they have their own column.

Lorerunner asked me to post the question. What I asked was how do we deal with inter-Region Trade tariffs vs international trade tariffs. Practically, it should be just one stat under tariffs and we state what ratio between domestic and foreign we want.

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31 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:20 pm

That seems like it would be a matter for the council chamber. I'd be happy if we worked together to set a universal tariff rate so that inter-region smuggling did not become an issue.

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32 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:21 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:That seems like it would be a matter for the council chamber. I'd be happy if we worked together to set a universal tariff rate so that inter-region smuggling did not become an issue.

I agree with this.

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33 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:24 pm

Fun fact: the Constitution mandates free internal trade (much like the US Constitution) Wink
I'd like to know what "inter-region smuggling" is. I mean, without internal trade barriers, why would there be smugglers? Why would they even be a problem?
If you mean tariffs should be a national issue, maybe if it was a recommendation, or a guideline (say 5% of total trade - but it doesn't say what the structure of tariffs is supposed to be)

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34 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:29 pm

re:inter-regional smuggling. If one region places a tariff of 10% on all imports and another places 5%, people will import goods to the region with lower tariffs and just bring the goods across the border to sell. This makes competing on tariff rates profitable in the short term for individual regions, but will apply a downwards pressure on all of our revenue and does not protect our domestic industry from foreign imports.

It's not a criminal offence, but it does evade tax.

My suggestion was we craft national legislation to make the tariff rate set by the council of governors and applied universally, but still collected by the regions.

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35 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:32 pm

To explain why I'm hesitant to let the Council as a whole to set tariffs. Eastport and Southport account for huge majority of international trade. Thus, they should have more say in tariffs on such trade, but in the Council, they'd be put on the same level as, say, Central or Plainsdale who lack any international port, and tariffs have no bearing on them.
As for inter-regional smuggling, as I said, I am all for guidelines and recommendations, but, ultimately, it's a regional matter. If one region undercuts another, the main result would be cheaper imports for the people, which is a good thing.

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36 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:36 pm

Only a good thing for foreign businesses and consumers. Our own budding manufacturers would struggle to compete with cheap imports.

If you feel any such legislation would be limiting to certain regions I suggest you support the PRAT bill currently on the floor of the chamber. But I would point out that my own region of Plainsdale is also investing heavily in the creation of a port, as is Aberisk. I suspect international trade will become an issue for all of our regions as time goes on.

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37 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:37 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:To explain why I'm hesitant to let the Council as a whole to set tariffs. Eastport and Southport account for  huge majority of international trade. Thus, they should have more say in tariffs on such trade, but in the Council, they'd be put on the same level as, say, Central or Plainsdale who lack any international port, and tariffs have no bearing on them.
As for inter-regional smuggling, as I said, I am all for guidelines and recommendations, but, ultimately, it's a regional matter. If one region undercuts another, the main result would be cheaper imports for the people, which is a good thing.

IC: I do not believe cheap imports would be good for the people, it creates an over-reliance on foreign goods, directly enslaves us to the Americans and weakens domestic industry when it needs the growth the most

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38 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:40 pm

I am of the opinion that this is not a region issue but one of Echain as a howl. I understand Felixs point that some regions are stronger affected than others, but I do not see this as a reason to lets this be handeld by individual regions on there own.

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39 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:41 pm

Would anyone be willing to volunteer to craft the legislation necessary?

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40 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:42 pm

As I said, I am open for Council's guidelines and voluntary cooperation, but I am against giving the Council powers which disproportionately influence certain regions.
It's functionally the same as if the Council published mining permits, or if it made agricultural quotas. Measures which largely affect only specific regions shouldn't be in Council's hands.

Of course you all feel this is Echain's problem, of course you don't think the Regions who actually are affected by tariffs should have most say in them. It's because giving the Council power to set tariffs increases your strenght and allows you to push Eastport and Southport, and thus, in effect, makes Southport and Eastport second class Regions.

And Eastport will retaliate in any way it sees fit.

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41 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:44 pm

I also believe this should not be a Bill which would effect Echain as a whole but a Trade Treaty and anyone that wants to enter into it will do so on a Region by Region basis.

OOC: I don't have time to do it now but I will do it later tonight

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42 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:46 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:As I said, I am open for Council's guidelines and voluntary cooperation, but I am against giving the Council powers which disproportionately influence certain regions.
It's functionally the same as if the Council published mining permits, or if it made agricultural quotas. Measures which largely affect only specific regions shouldn't be in Council's hands.

Of course you all feel this is Echain's problem, of course you don't think the Regions who actually are affected by tariffs should have most say in them. It's because giving the Council power to set tariffs increases your strenght and allows you to push Eastport and Southport, and thus, in effect, makes Southport and Eastport second class Regions.

And Eastport will retaliate in any way it sees fit.

This is unbecoming. Tariffs affect us all. If Eastport allows cheap imports that may harm another region's economy. Why should that be a unilateral decision made by Eastport?

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43 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:47 pm

Mr. Clary you can let your passiv aggressiv attetude at the door, thank you very much.
The differance between mining permits or agricultural quotas lies within the interaction with nations and companies outside of Echain.
Do not missunderstand me, I am not for the hinderance of Southport or Eastport in anyway and I am open to talks regarding this, but you are allready antagonising us with your outride accusations.



Last edited by Governor Lorinbas on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:52 pm; edited 2 times in total

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44 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:48 pm

Support the PRAT bill and ad-hoc trade treaties won't be necessary. We will have legislation flexible enough to allow such things to be negotiated on the floor.

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45 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:51 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:This is unbecoming. Tariffs affect us all. If Eastport allows cheap imports that may harm another region's economy. Why should that be a unilateral decision made by Eastport?

I'll repeat myself: I am all for voluntary cooperation. Tariffs do influence other regions as well. Just like mining in Northport, just like agriculture in Plainsdale.
After all, if Plainsdale uses the fact it has superior soil to, say, Eastport, to undercut Eastport's farmers, they'll suffer. Thus, the Council should legislate how much can Plainsdale grow, so that they don't harm the economies of other Regions.

I don't see how that's different from what you propose we do with tariffs, and if such laws pass, Eastport will be proposing other similar measures.

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46 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:52 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:
Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:This is unbecoming. Tariffs affect us all. If Eastport allows cheap imports that may harm another region's economy. Why should that be a unilateral decision made by Eastport?

I'll repeat myself: I am all for voluntary cooperation. Tariffs do influence other regions as well. Just like mining in Northport, just like agriculture in Plainsdale.
After all, if Plainsdale uses the fact it has superior soil to, say, Eastport, to undercut Eastport's farmers, they'll suffer. Thus, the Council should legislate how much can Plainsdale grow, so that they don't harm the economies of other Regions.

I don't see how that's different from what you propose we do with tariffs, and if such laws pass, Eastport will be proposing other similar measures.

OOC: Alright folks, Post a new topic and we can discuss it on there this topic is for the Recurring Monthly Budget

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47 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:54 pm

Voluntary cooperation on this bill will be undermined by the fact we are not allowed internal trade barriers. That will be the only way we can cooperate. We can either work together to set a universal tariff or vote to change the constitution to allow tariffs to be placed on inter-regional imports.

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48 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:55 pm

I support allowing the regions to decide their own tariffs and taxes, but inter-regional trade should be free. This allows for the least amount of conflict and tension between regions and clears the council for more important matters.

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49 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:57 pm

As a compromise, I propose the following:

Tariffs will be set by Bureau for Foreign Trade. In this bureau, Region's will have an amount of votes re-negotiated under each Council so as to reflect the structure of international trade (main trading ports and hubs). The first distribution of votes will be 33% Southport, 33% Eastport, and 33% equally divided between the rest of the regions.

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50 Re: Reoccurring Issue: Monthly Budget on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:57 pm

We will continue this in another topic, but your proposed solution is unworkable Griffenknight, and will only lead to more tension, not less.

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