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Out Of Character

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576 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:36 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:Well, that's just peachy. It's nice how we all basically have the same general goals and stated preference for PvE, but we do nothing but PvP.

I still wouldn't call it a crisis. Versberg leaves, Aberisk leaves - it's only a crisis if the others will try to stop them (and I obviously won't).

Well the whole point of this is to end the PvP thing. Gollvieg is proposing to secede and for other regions to join in so we can re-write the Constitution which will make all the players more united so we can all stop bickering without having to deal with the legality of getting rid of a Constitution.

Because Eastport and Felix is so opposed to this as is The Waltens inevitably factions form with different goals. You wanting to keep the Constitution and Gollvieg with others wanting to scrap it and re-write it.

Tbh this is nothing out of the ordinary for a developing nation, hell France is on it's 5 Republic.

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577 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:37 pm

Definition of a democracy: When 100 people who all agree on A get together and compromise with B.


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578 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:39 pm

The Lorerunner wrote:Definition of a democracy: When 100 people who all agree on A get together and compromise with B.

That was rather eerie, I was just watching something on Netflix and as soon as you posted that a President said "Democracy, where everyone agrees on something but end up compromising out of formality".

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579 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:45 pm

Do you want to change the Constitution? Propose this. Do it. In the Council. What you propose is civil war. A couple Regions split off to force the others to play by new (their) rules.

France had 5 republics in 200 years. Of those, 2 were ended by Germans, 1 was ended by internal change, and only 2, the first ones, were created by revolution (civil war).

This is a situation where civil war is consulted as the first option, and it's done before a single year since independence passed. Not really comparable.

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580 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:48 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:Do you want to change the Constitution? Propose this. Do it. In the Council. What you propose is civil war. A couple Regions split off to force the others to play by new (their) rules.

France had 5 republics in 200 years. Of those, 2 were ended by Germans, 1 was ended by internal change, and only 2, the first ones, were created by revolution (civil war).

This is a situation where civil war is consulted as the first option, and it's done before a single year since independence passed. Not really comparable.

There is zero legality in ending the Constitution through the Council and even if it were I imagine it would require a unanimous vote and failing that at least a 8/9 which wont happen because of Felix, Sander and maybe Whiskey. What also is being proposed is multiple changes including merging of regions and a new (old) institution.

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581 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:52 pm

Half true. We can't fully discard current Constitution, but everything except BoIR can be cahnged, legally, by the mechanism described in Constitution (obviously with slightly different exact process, due to the OOC change).

As for the vote, noone proposed anything to me. From what you say, I think you just talked together, then decided the others wouldn't agree, and thus plot to attack them, without even trying diplomacy OR democracy.

Which sets a very nice precedent, and eventually, that will bite you in the ass.

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582 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:55 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:Half true. We can't fully discard current Constitution, but everything except BoIR can be cahnged, legally, by the mechanism described in Constitution (obviously with slightly different exact process, due to the OOC change).

As for the vote, noone proposed anything. From what you say, I think you just talked together, then decided the others wouldn't agree, and thus plot to attack them, without even trying diplomacy OR democracy.

Which sets a very nice precedent, and eventually, that will bite you in the ass.

It's already a foregone conclusion, Felix said himself that he will do everything to uphold the Constitution and what is being proposed by me and others is a drastic change. At best it will take what 10 in game turns if we are lucky? with opposition after that.

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583 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:01 pm

Upholding the Constitution can mean different things, and we'll probably never learn what Felix would've done if he were consulted, heck, even informed.

And I understand the lure of expediency, but as I said, as violence begets violence, revolution begets revolution. It may be a slog, it may take a while, but diplomacy is the better option (unless you're literally dealing with nazis or other unambiguously evil guys).

It's really a shame if the nation collapses because a couple people put more stock in their "expectations" (you wouldn't agree anyways; it would take too long; it's impossible by other means) than in diplomacy.

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584 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:03 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:Upholding the Constitution can mean different things, and we'll probably never learn what Felix would've done if he were consulted, heck, even informed.

And I understand the lure of expediency, but as I said, as violence begets violence, revolution begets revolution. It may be a slog, it may take a while, but diplomacy is the better option (unless you're literally dealing with nazis or other unambiguously evil guys).

It's really a shame if the nation collapses because a couple people put more stock in their "expectations" (you wouldn't agree anyways; it would take too long; it's impossible by other means) than in diplomacy.

Tbh I think it has gotten past the point of no return at this point, I understand where you are coming from but Alexander does not and he feels 100% sure Felix would be completely opposed to the ideas put forward.

Each one of us probably should have reached out to each other sooner tbh.

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585 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:07 pm

Well, in this matter, you (Alexander&co) are the active party. Felix reached out to people numerous times before (Compact being the greatest example).

Anyway, it's probably gonna be quick, at least. From what I know right now, it seems Felix is hopelessly outmatched, and I doubt he'll find a way to stop this. He'll try, if he hears about the plot, but I doubt it'll amount to anything.

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586 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:08 pm

I'm sorry to say this, but I'm probably going to step out of the game.  I'm just not enjoying it like I thought I would and I don't want to drag everyone else down with my lack of enthusiasm.  Again, sorry everyone.

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587 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:09 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:Well, in this matter, you (Alexander&co) are the active party. Felix reached out to people numerous times before (Compact being the greatest example).

Anyway, it's probably gonna be quick, at least. From what I know right now, it seems Felix is hopelessly outmatched, and I doubt he'll find a way to stop this. He'll try, if he hears about the plot, but I doubt it'll amount to anything.

I just meant about the whole secession crisis.

What will you do if things do go south for Felix?, will he put up a fight or not?.

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588 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:10 pm

That depends. If Gollvieg is a part of it, he'll probably feel personally threatened, and then he will fight. Whether politically or militarily, well, we'll see.

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589 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:14 pm

Admiral Krenzler wrote:I'm sorry to say this, but I'm probably going to step out of the game.  I'm just not enjoying it like I thought I would and I don't want to drag everyone else down with my lack of enthusiasm.  Again, sorry everyone.
Pity; we were just about to, probably, have a civil war where you could actually fight stuff. Blame your leaders for not being at war, yeesh!

But seriously, that sucks. With Gollvieg effectively bowing out as well I may just give up on this endeavor. We already have so few players as is.


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590 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:14 pm

The Lorerunner wrote:
Admiral Krenzler wrote:I'm sorry to say this, but I'm probably going to step out of the game.  I'm just not enjoying it like I thought I would and I don't want to drag everyone else down with my lack of enthusiasm.  Again, sorry everyone.
Pity; we were just about to, probably, have a civil war where you could actually fight stuff.  Blame your leaders for not being at war, yeesh!  

But seriously, that sucks.  With Gollvieg effectively bowing out as well I may just give up on this endeavor.  We already have so few players as is.

Sorry, Lore Sad

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591 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:16 pm

This is just swell. On the flipside, I'll have some time for the KotOR3 RP thingy.

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592 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:18 pm

Gollvieg is also out?

Well than this is the death of Echain is it not?Sad

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593 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:19 pm

Governor Lorinbas wrote:Gollvieg is also out?

Well than this is the death of Echain is it not?Sad

Well it was always foreshadowed although I though thought Gollvieg just wanted a different position like his original one and we were gonna merge Aberisk with Lurem. I had no idea he was bowing out. Sad

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594 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:21 pm

I thought he would simply switch to his second character...

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595 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:24 pm

Well the original plan was to eliminate the position of Delegate of Defence and make Alexander as King head of the armed force. Aberisk was always going to merge with Lurem as well and Southport was going to merge with Versberg. But if Gollvieg is not just changing positions but leaving then we probably don't have enough players.

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596 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:25 pm

I just want to publicly take the blame for this on myself, for both major flaws. First, for not getting enough players interacting (a game like this by definition requires active players), and second for just not having the time to GM properly.


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597 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:28 pm

I would like for the game to continue but I been ignoring a lot of RL responsibilities in order to keep up and play the game.

Are you sure Echain will die without me? I could continue on if I am only a background character rather than a frontman



Last edited by Governor Gollvieg on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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598 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:28 pm

I don't think it's anyone's fault. The real problem always was lack of active players, all throughout the game, to the point that we're currently running on a skeleton crew. GM issues would be solvable (replacement by dedicated GM (dedicated as in dedicated GPU), aGM...); lack of players isn't.

At this point, Gollvieg, it's better IMO to let it die. It's but a carcass anyway. Nice setting, huge promise, but not enough players. If we have to ask ourselves "will the game have enough people if I leave", then the game already failed.

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599 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:33 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:I don't think it's anyone's fault. The real problem always was lack of active players, all throughout the game, to the point that we're currently running on a skeleton crew. GM issues would be solvable (replacement by dedicated GM (dedicated as in dedicated GPU), aGM...); lack of players isn't.

At this point, Gollvieg, it's better IMO to let it die. It's but a carcass anyway. Nice setting, huge promise, but not enough players. If we have to ask ourselves "will the game have enough people if I leave", then the game already failed.

Yeah I agree, well it was fun while it lasted at least.

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600 Re: Out Of Character on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:37 pm

Well if this the end, I want to say thank you guys for the fun we had, and special thanks to Lore for being GM and starting this.

I hope that at some point in the future we can do something like this again, and than it will work out.

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