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Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act

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26 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:40 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:If we make it a median of regional medians, the resulting number should prove consensual.

But that could lead to a rich region like Eastport having their wages too low and a poor region like Lurem have their wages too high.

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27 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:40 pm

What are the advantages, in your opinion, of that over my suggestion?

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28 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:40 pm

Governor Alexander wrote:
Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:If we make it a median of regional medians, the resulting number should prove consensual.

But that could lead to a rich region like Eastport having their wages too low and a poor region like Lurem have their wages too high.

Exactly.

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29 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:42 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:What are the advantages, in your opinion, of that over my suggestion?


My suggestion means all regions get exactly what is right for each of them instead of some being exceptions and having this process.

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30 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:42 pm

Governor Grifenknight wrote:You guys are ignoring me...

I asked Lore last week about the normal living costs(In Lurem) per month.  He told me about 300-ish(I dont remember the exact number).  I did the math and with a 10 hour day and 6 day work weeks and even 2 ESP an hour is alot.  10 ESP an hour IS INSANE.(I believe you changed the bill, but it did state that the average living cost is 10 ESP an hour)

Also, you have to remember that with areas with higher wages, the price of living goes up.  Im sure the same applies in this world.  You also have to remember that there is only 100 Million ESP in circulation right now with a population of about 2 million people(I think thats right).  The strain on businesses would be crazy...

OOC: I believe you changed the bill as I was typing this so...

OOC:Since when did we have 6 day work weeks? Is that a thing in the lore?

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31 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:43 pm

I believe there should be no bill for this. The regions fluctuate too wildly in wealth and this would essentially only establish a minimum wage for the poor regions(Lurem and Aberisk). This is clearly singling us out.

If we left the jursidiction of minimum wage to the regions, they would be able to calculate the living cost of their regions and set it at that. No problem...

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32 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:43 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:
Governor Grifenknight wrote:You guys are ignoring me...

I asked Lore last week about the normal living costs(In Lurem) per month.  He told me about 300-ish(I dont remember the exact number).  I did the math and with a 10 hour day and 6 day work weeks and even 2 ESP an hour is alot.  10 ESP an hour IS INSANE.(I believe you changed the bill, but it did state that the average living cost is 10 ESP an hour)

Also, you have to remember that with areas with higher wages, the price of living goes up.  Im sure the same applies in this world.  You also have to remember that there is only 100 Million ESP in circulation right now with a population of about 2 million people(I think thats right).  The strain on businesses would be crazy...

OOC: I believe you changed the bill as I was typing this so...

OOC:Since when did we have 6 day work weeks? Is that a thing in the lore?

It was an example and that was what I set for Lurem.

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33 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:44 pm

Governor Grifenknight wrote:
Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:But then, wouldn't workers from Aberisk and Lurem move for greater wages to other Regions?
I am for a unitary minimum wage, but perhaps it could be set as a median, not an average.

But the problem is that with higher wages come higher costs of living.

OOC:  I know about this too much.  The region I live in irl is really expensive to live in compared to nearby regions because the wages are much higher compared to those regions.
Essentially...
My area= High living cost is to High wages
like
other areas= Low living costs is to low wages

OOC: Corrolation might not be causation. High wages might be because high cost of living, or because of gentification, or because of land prices etc

IC: I do not think that creating a cycle of poverty where a poor Region constantly loses it's workers and livlihood due to the tyranny of the masses would be conductive to growth

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34 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:44 pm

Governor Grifenknight wrote:I believe there should be no bill for this.  The regions fluctuate too wildly in wealth and this would essentially only establish a minimum wage for the poor regions(Lurem and Aberisk).  This is clearly singling us out.  

If we left the jursidiction of minimum wage to the regions, they would be able to calculate the living cost of their regions and set it at that.  No problem...


This bill basically does that anyway but takes the power out of the hands of the regions and gives it to the national bank. It does not single out anyone as the richer regions would be paying higher wages than the poorer regions.

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35 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:45 pm

Calculate it off a 40 hour work week instead. A livable wage should allow someone to live outside of work.

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36 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:46 pm

What about this: we divide Regions into 3 groups of 3 based on median living expenses (highest to lowest). Lowest bracket has 3 "votes", middle 2 "votes" and highest 1 "vote", thus skewing ultimate enumeration lower so it fits more the poorer regions, while still slowly bringing up the national average?

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37 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:46 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Calculate it off a 40 hour work week instead. A livable wage should allow someone to live outside of work.

OOC: This is 1946 in a poverty stricken country...

IC: Even with a 40 hour work week, your initial proposal of 10 ESP per hour was insane. TOTAL MADNESS.

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38 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:47 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Calculate it off a 40 hour work week instead. A livable wage should allow someone to live outside of work.


But still it can't be national as the poorer regions have a different costs of living and so setting a national wage off a 40 hour work week would not be good for regions like Lurem.

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39 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:47 pm

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:What about this: we divide Regions into 3 groups of 3 based on median living expenses (highest to lowest). Lowest bracket has 3 "votes", middle 2 "votes" and highest 1 "vote", thus skewing ultimate enumeration lower so it fits more the poorer regions, while still slowly bringing up the national average?

Or we could leave it to the hands of the regions...

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40 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:48 pm

Governor Grifenknight wrote:
Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Calculate it off a 40 hour work week instead. A livable wage should allow someone to live outside of work.

OOC: This is 1946 in a poverty stricken country...

IC:  Even with a 40 hour work week, your initial proposal of 10 ESP per hour was insane.  TOTAL MADNESS.

10 ESP was not my suggestion, I will admit I assumed Governor Alexander had done their homework and asked what a reasonable initial wage would be. Setting an initial wage I do not believe is necessary. It should immediately be up to the bank.

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41 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:48 pm

Governor Grifenknight wrote:
Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:What about this: we divide Regions into 3 groups of 3 based on median living expenses (highest to lowest). Lowest bracket has 3 "votes", middle 2 "votes" and highest 1 "vote", thus skewing ultimate enumeration lower so it fits more the poorer regions, while still slowly bringing up the national average?

Or we could leave it to the hands of the regions...


Which is still exactly what my bill does, it just takes the power away from the regions (who let's face it are biased) and gives it to the bank so an impartial number can be agreed upon.

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42 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:49 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:
Governor Grifenknight wrote:
Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:Calculate it off a 40 hour work week instead. A livable wage should allow someone to live outside of work.

OOC: This is 1946 in a poverty stricken country...

IC:  Even with a 40 hour work week, your initial proposal of 10 ESP per hour was insane.  TOTAL MADNESS.

10 ESP was not my suggestion, I will admit I assumed Governor Alexander had done their homework and asked what a reasonable initial wage would be. Setting an initial wage I do not believe is necessary. It should immediately be up to the bank.


This bill has been changed to reflect this.

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43 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:50 pm

Problem with minimum wage is the same as that of tariffs. If minimums are not in tune, they will lead to migration to richer regions, making the poor ones even poorer.
On the other hand, we should make the minimum reachable for the poor regions. I believe my bracketing proposition would work like that.

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44 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:51 pm

Have you heard of "influence" and "bribery"? I'm sure if regions had malicious intents to harm their own people, they would find a way to influence the bank. These men arent gods who cant be swayed or biased. They have their own backgrounds and home regions and will probably push for it.

OOC: Lets look at the gameplay aspect as well. We want the regions to be able to set something...

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45 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:51 pm

This is a minimum wage. We calculate it off 40 hours a week so that penalty rates get applied for overtime. Paying Luremite workers more is not going to harm their economy, it will bolster it with consumer demand increasing.

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46 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:53 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:This is a minimum wage. We calculate it off 40 hours a week so that penalty rates get applied for overtime. Paying Luremite workers more is not going to harm their economy, it will bolster it with consumer demand increasing.

But it will hurt the businesses and in turn they will increase prices, keeping the market in the same place. This is simple economics, my dear friend. Increased wages lead to increased prices. This is a well known fact. However, if productivity was increased in some way, with technology or something, then wages would be able to increase without price raises. Again, simple economics...

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47 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:53 pm

The minimum should then be lower rather than higher.
Introducing standards of Eastport in Lurem by fiat is simply impossible - Lurem-based businesses could not withstand such a push.

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48 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:55 pm

Governor Grifenknight wrote:
But it will hurt the businesses and in turn they will increase prices, keeping the market in the same place.  This is simple economics, my dear friend.  Increased wages lead to increased prices.  This is a well known fact.  However, if productivity was increased in some way, with technology or something, then wages would be able to increase without price raises.  Again, simple economics...

This is not simple economics. It is not a linear scale. Wage increases do not lead to inflation in the exact manner you posit as there are more inputs into cost than simply labour cost.

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49 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:57 pm

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:
Governor Grifenknight wrote:
But it will hurt the businesses and in turn they will increase prices, keeping the market in the same place.  This is simple economics, my dear friend.  Increased wages lead to increased prices.  This is a well known fact.  However, if productivity was increased in some way, with technology or something, then wages would be able to increase without price raises.  Again, simple economics...

This is not simple economics. It is not a linear scale. Wage increases do not lead to inflation in the exact manner you posit.

I didnt say it will cause inflation. By increasing wages, the business would be losing money, right? So in order to compensate, they would have to increase prices, right? That would essentially leave the market in the same place. Consumer demand would not be able to increase because their increased wages, which cause the business to lose money, make the business increase prices, in order to compensate for that loss. Do I need to repeat?

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50 Re: Council of Governors - Minimum Wage Act on Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:02 am

Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:
Governor Grifenknight wrote:
But it will hurt the businesses and in turn they will increase prices, keeping the market in the same place.  This is simple economics, my dear friend.  Increased wages lead to increased prices.  This is a well known fact.  However, if productivity was increased in some way, with technology or something, then wages would be able to increase without price raises.  Again, simple economics...

This is not simple economics. It is not a linear scale. Wage increases do not lead to inflation in the exact manner you posit as there are more inputs into cost than simply labour cost.

OOC: I'm pretty sure minimum wage is the devil is corporate propaganda. More money in the hands of more ppl can stimulate the economy greatly.

IC: I can agree to this if we implement the bracket system

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