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Discussion - Alliance of Oceanic Independent Nations

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It seems that with the immigration crisis over, this is a perfect time for us to discuss the potential alliances that we should build in order to increase our collective global influence. I believe we should begin talks with our neighbor Australia to see of we can help Australia along with other Oceanic Nations throw off their colonial masters



Last edited by Governor Gollvieg on Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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I agree Australia and New Zealand are natural allies. I believe we should closely ally with the western powers whilst putting on a face of neutrality.

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What if these colonial masters decide to attempt to stop them? We don't have the power to assist them if it comes to war and fighting..

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Governor Grifenknight wrote:What if these colonial masters decide to attempt to stop them?  We don't have the power to assist them if it comes to war and fighting..

I severely doubt there would be armed insurrection from either of these "colonies". Plus I imagine Britain would not care enough about Echain (sadly) to have an opinion on the relations between the Dominions of Australia and New Zealand with us.

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I doubt it will end up with armed insurrection as well, but the slight chance that that would happen might ruin us...

I am merely stating all the possibilities and am in no way against strengthening our relations with these nations, but an alliance seems like an unnecessary risk.

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Governor Grifenknight wrote:I doubt it will end up with armed insurrection as well, but the slight chance that that would happen might ruin us...

I am merely stating all the possibilities and am in no way against strengthening our relations with these nations, but an alliance seems like an unnecessary risk.


I think the rewards far out way the risks, a close ally who could provide us with direct relations with the 3rd biggest superpower in the world.

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A direct relation that they want to break...

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Governor Grifenknight wrote:A direct relation that they want to break...

Britain is in no shape to strongly protest their leaving the Commonwealth and they are still culturaly similar enough that Britain will still have friendly relations.

The greater question is what do we have to offer them? I cannot say much more but Aberisk has some medical data that might prove useful in negotiations but we would need more to sweeten the pot.

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We have little ties with colonial powers, trade or political. We do have strong trade with Australia and New Zealand. The colonial powers are on the vane, whilst the New World rises from the ashes of War.

We should ride this wave to its fullest. Alongside British colonies, with whom we also share common culture, I'd direct your eyes to Indochina and Indonesia, where the People fight their overseas masters directly. We should consider sending aid to these freedom fighters on Java, Sumatra, Borneo and Flores, as well as establish ties with those in Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia.

This is for the purpose of gaining their trust and support, so we may help them build diplomacy, or join ours if they so wished. It is our burden, as people used to freedom, to enlighten the new nations surrounding us, lest they fall to despotism and tyranny.

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I just want to make my agreement regarding cooperation with countries like New Zealand or Australia clear.

As Felix rightfully said, the age of colonialism is over, we should try to support countries within our periphery and try to help them establishing functioning governments to enforce stability within the Oceania region. The neighbours we have, who share our democratic values, who share our interests in industrial growth and cooperation.

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Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:We have little ties with colonial powers, trade or political. We do have strong trade with Australia and New Zealand. The colonial powers are on the vane, whilst the New World rises from the ashes of War.

We should ride this wave to its fullest. Alongside British colonies, with whom we also share common culture, I'd direct your eyes to Indochina and Indonesia, where the People fight their overseas masters directly. We should consider sending aid to these freedom fighters on Java, Sumatra, Borneo and Flores, as well as establish ties with those in Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia.

This is for the purpose of gaining their trust and support, so we may help them build diplomacy, or join ours if they so wished. It is our burden, as people used to freedom, to enlighten the new nations surrounding us, lest they fall to despotism and tyranny.

I agree with Felix. If we are to maintain our independence we must also support the fight against Dictatorships disguised as Socialists and evil colonial powers in Indochina, otherwise South East Asia will become a launching point for military action all over Oceania.

OOC: I just realized that if we switch Oceanic and Independent in Alliance of Oceanic Independent Nations it would spell out AION and sound better.

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An alliance with New Zealand is one thing, but I do not trust Australia. The ties they built with the US during the war seem to be very strong.

If we enter an alliance with Australia, I suspect that we will essentially be agreeing to follow US foreign policy from here on out.

Australia is not a colonised nation, it is a coloniser. I believe we would be far better served attempting to build an anti-colonial league out of the countries trying to fight for their independence. We should be approaching countries such as Indonesia, India and China.

We should be trying to forge a longstanding alliance of non-alligned nations. Once we have decolonised the Asia-Pacific region we should help Africa to liberate itself.

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If Australia isn't a colony, neither are we nor New Zealand.

We have to include Australia, as we share culture, and thus should be closer. How could an Asian or Oceanic nation believe in an alliance which eschews cultural ties?

Also, we cannot assume what responsibilities we'd have in such alliance, as it has not been negotiated in full. Thus, presuming we'd somehow be tied by other members foreign policy is premature, as this would only be an issue in an unequal partnership.

Thanks Alliance is important bprecisely to counteract the influence of great powers. We stand between Scylla of the Communists and Charybdis of the Americans - all of us, including Australia. Only with some measure of unity can we all expect to retain more but a semblance of independence.
Then, I obviously support the notion that we should look beyond Oceania, but that comes later. Now we need to establish ourselves locally, before attempting to exert power globally.

Last I wonder what Governor Whiskers means by 'China'. Does he mean Kuomintang, propped up by the US, or Mao's despocy, heavily supported by Soviets? If Australia has too strong a tie to the United States, how can you claim either side of the Chinese Civil War to be any better prospect for alliance?

OOC: What about "Independent Alliance of Southern and Oceanic Nation's" - IASON? A bit euro-centric, but that fits my character Wink

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Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:An alliance with New Zealand is one thing, but I do not trust Australia. The ties they built with the US during the war seem to be very strong.

If we enter an alliance with Australia, I suspect that we will essentially be agreeing to follow US foreign policy from here on out.

Australia is not a colonised nation, it is a coloniser. I believe we would be far better served attempting to build an anti-colonial league out of the countries trying to fight for their independence. We should be approaching countries such as Indonesia, India and China.

We should be trying to forge a longstanding alliance of non-alligned nations. Once we have decolonised the Asia-Pacific region we should help Africa to liberate itself.

I would like to warn that Mao Zedong is an honorless cur that will turn against us at the first opportunity. Also the Former Chinese Empire have eroded all good faith and have repeatedly raped the continent for thousands of years that merely trying to make official talks with China will sour relations with all of Asia at the least and turn them against us in the worse case scenario. If we are to have anything to do with China it must be with the Kuomintang (KMT) they are the only ones that the rest of Asia would deal with and they currently have a Major Base in Taiwan. I would have to warn you, they are fighting a fierce war with Mao and due to their incompetence, poor management and stupid leaders they are losing fast.

India on the other hand is having a real war with Britain, unlike Australia and New Zealand and approaching them would mean a guaranteed war with the currently second most powerful Navy in the World.

Indonesia... is going to be a tough one. They are currently engaged in a revolution from the Dutch which is in line with our purpose, but in the War they were equipped, trained, and freed from oppression from the Dutch... by the Empire of Japan and holds an extremely high regard for the Japanese. Considering what the people of Echain did to Innocent Japanese Refugees that tried to escape war they would definitely despise us and they would prove a deadly enemy if we do not work to repair Japanese/Indonesian relations. If we are to have anything to do with the Indonesians we have to get into contact with the Japanese Volunteer Division that stayed behind to fight for Indonesian freedom.

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I would suggest we take heed concerning cultural and historical relations of Asian nations from Governor Gollvieg.

As for Indonesia, I believe we could put a part of Darpon officially on leave of absence. If they then were, say, on a vacation in Indonesia along with a couple fresh ex-officers from our army, they could foster good relations.

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OOC:Were there native Echaini? And are we not native Echaini? I assumed most of us were, just with Portugese influence. Australia is run by the colonists who still largely see themselves as British, same with New Zealand.

Australia and New Zealand are genocidal imperialists, we may as well invite Japan to an alliance if we are to throw our lot in with them.

As you should well know, there is no love lost between Stalin and Mao, Stalin and Lenin threw their lot in with the KMT all the way back in 1923. As such I believe we would be better off looking to the PRC who have gained the upper hand after the defeat of Japan. They are not currently backed by any superpower and will likely be grateful for any assistance in bringing their country up to a post-colonial level.

We don't have to enter an alliance with India or Indonesia yet, we can send volunteer forces as international brigades, similar to the ones some of us fought with in Spain before the war.



Last edited by Governor WhiskeyWhiskers on Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Then why do Maoists fight with Soviet weapons, with Soviet tanks, and with Soviet "instructors"?

Also, I would be remiss not to mention that your belligerence is starting to anger me, governor Whiskers.

OOC: Echain had no aboriginal population. And regarding Mao-Stalin relations, they very much supported each other from about 1944 until after Mao won the civil war, so right now they are allies.



Last edited by Felix Clary zu Osegg on Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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As we seems to talk about it, I want to state that I am in extreme opposition to working with the dog Mao. China is not a potential ally but a potential threat.
We should concentrate our efforts on New Zealand and Australia in the short term. In the long term we will have to see.

Whisky I respect you as a person, no matter our ideological differences, but I find it presumptuous to label Australia and New Zealand as "genocidal imperialists" but being ok with the horrors in China.

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We could say the same about the KMT with German arms and instructors until the outbreak of war with Japan. The two dominant Chinese factions are clearly not easily influenced, and are simply mercenary in their appeals for aid.

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Governor WhiskeyWhiskers wrote:OOC:Were there native Echaini? And are we not native Echaini? I assumed most of us were, just with Portugese influence. Australia is run by the colonists who still largely see themselves as British, same with New Zealand.

Australia and New Zealand are genocidal imperialists, we may as well invite Japan to an alliance if we are to throw our lot in with them.

As you should well know, there is no love lost between Stalin and Mao, Stalin and Lenin threw their lot in with the KMT all the way back in 1923. As such I believe we would be better off looking to the PRC who have gained the upper hand after the defeat of Japan. They are not currently backed by any superpower and will likely be grateful for any assistance in bringing their country up to a post-colonial level.

OOC: Echain just appeared out of nowhere and had no native population. Yay we are actually the America without having to deal with the Native Americans.

I will never deal with Mao, he will betray us just like how he purged my people. The Kiwis never had a reputation for any ill toward their hosts and have incorporated themselves into the local population. Australia on the other hand, I have to agree with you there.

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Whiskers, you still did not address the contradiction in your argument - why is Australia's good relations with USA a threat, but alliance between Mao and Soviets somehow isn't?

I also detest your reliance on collective and historic guilt. Especially after what just happened to the refugees, and how you railed against racism, to sum up a nation as naught but "genocidal imperialists" is exactly they - despicable racism.

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Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:Whiskers, you still did not address the contradiction in your argument - why is Australia's good relations with USA a threat, but alliance between Mao and Soviets somehow isn't?

I also detest your reliance on collective and historic guilt. Especially after what just happened to the refugees, and how you railed against racism, to sum up a nation as naught but "genocidal imperialists" is exactly they - despicable racism.

*Cough* We need to actually talk about the issue *cough*

*cough* don't rock the boat *cough*

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*coldly* And how am I straying from the topic, Governor Gollvieg?

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Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:*coldly* And how am I straying from the topic, Governor Gollvieg?

Could you not bait Governor WW into a long session of mud slinging?

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I am simply demanding that he addresses contradictions in his words. It is in service to the Council that we are honest to each other, and honest to ourselves - and Governor Whiskers is ceiling in at least one of those precepts.

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