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Turn 8 Sunday Stream

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1 Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:12 am

For those of you that missed it

Here is the Update Stream for the Political game.

In summary, Japan is now the 50th State in the United States of America (They are probably going to figure out a new name now). The 5th dimension have touched our world and we have touched it back. Kensler is now DoD, REJOICE! Nerozaz was caught while in Vietnam and in the most horrible fashion, mistaken for a French Spy by the Viet Minh and is tortured to the point where he broke and revealed that he is Echaini. The CoG, completely denied his existence and ousted him as a French spy. Nerozaz, was able to break out of an easy peasy first class prison and proceed to beat all odds and survive the most thick jungle in the world only to be rescued by Alexander and disappears off the face of the world.

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2 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:38 am

Couple things.

First, I don't mind shifting off the stream for the live D&D thing. I don't mind doing it ON stream either (a few people enjoyed watching) but I'm okay with Discord chat or the Forum chat plugin. These are the only alternatives I will accept.

Second; as much as I felt doing the Turn live helped and was overall better, it also took way, way too long. Over 4 hours, which is about double my average D&D session for a bit of perspective. So here's a few thoughts on chopping that down a bit.
Option 1: Limit actions per Turn artificially. I really don't want to do this, for reference.
Option 2: Limit actions per Turn naturally, aka increase the cost in money and Influence for every action so you're capable of performing less.
Option 3: Re-introduce the Construction stat for how much raw manpower in construction you have per Turn. I admit I don't like this option at this point, especially since there are many ways around it, and you could still enact 15 policies and 32 laws without Construction.
Option 4: Civ 5. No more explanation really needed.

Thoughts?


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3 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:54 am

Our gracious lord and savior have said on multiple occasions that Civ 5 would be the most time saving option so I would go with that

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4 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:08 pm

That's fine with me

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5 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:43 pm

I think option 2 would be best followed by option 4 and then option 3.

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6 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:44 pm

Governor Grifenknight wrote:I think option 2 would be best followed by option 4 and then option 3.

I would agree with this.

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7 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:39 pm

I think my position is already pretty clear. Civ V option is not an option for me, because at that point, we can just do Civ V MP with some roleplay. I'm in favour of 2, 3 is acceptable, 1 is only slightly better than Civ V option for me.

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8 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:34 pm

If I am honest I see it kind of like Karbin.
While I understand that option 4 would be the easiest, I personally am not sure to what degree I would really enjoy it.

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9 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:49 pm

Didn't Lore explain on stream that we would be doing the exact same things we would be doing except all the stat and data keeping AKA GM Score Keeping will be done with Civ. So basically background wise, Lore has an easier system to track all of our stats and actions while foreground we are doing the same.

@Lore I think you need to explain it better so we can understand what you are trying to do.

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10 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:55 pm

I can do a hypothetical 'turn' if it'd help. Live and all that.


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11 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:25 pm

However I also won't force it. I'm willing to try a couple weeks of the other options.


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12 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:44 pm

I'm up for experimenting with some of the options, but I don't want it taking up your time as well, Lore.

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13 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:19 pm

The Lorerunner wrote:However I also won't force it.  I'm willing to try a couple weeks of the other options.

As always, take the option that is best for you.

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14 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:33 am

What is the difference between storing values in spreadsheet and in Civ V? The only way Civ V helps, is if players do their actions through it - and thus are playing Civ V, not Echain PG.
Now I'll again be a selfish prick, but it's not about GM's comfort, it's about the comfort of the players as well. And while GM does have the power and the right to do what he wants, the opinion of the players should be considered as well, and, for me, Civ V option is either meaningless, or replaces this game so completely and fundamentally that it would no longer even be what I signed up for.

That being said, if Civ V proves to be popular enough, I would be in favour of a trial turn.

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15 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:56 am

Felix Clary zu Osegg wrote:What is the difference between storing values in spreadsheet and in Civ V? The only way Civ V helps, is if players do their actions through it - and thus are playing Civ V, not Echain PG.
Now I'll again be a selfish prick, but it's not about GM's comfort, it's about the comfort of the players as well. And while GM does have the power and the right to do what he wants, the opinion of the players should be considered as well, and, for me, Civ V option is either meaningless, or replaces this game so completely and fundamentally that it would no longer even be what I signed up for.

That being said, if Civ V proves to be popular enough, I would be in favour of a trial turn.

GM has a job that he needs to do to put food on the table. Since we are not directly contributing to his continued survival the PG naturally drops all the way down on the priority list. It's either we find a solution to reduce time spent GMing or the game have a real risk of being dropped. I'm sure that you can at least agree that having a game is better than having no game.

We should at least give him a chance to Demo how he is going to use Civ 5 to keep track of the game before we instantly shoot him down.

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16 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:48 am

Governor Gollvieg wrote:I'm sure that you can at least agree that having a game is better than having no game

I disagree with that mentality. If you can't do something well enough, don't do it at all. The point at which you reach that is relative, and I do recognise I have it higher than most in this case. If I take an example I believe we can all agree on, it would be better if Ride to Hell wasn't released at all, but the mentality you present would argue against it.

Of course, I realise that the workload on a GM is much higher than that of the players, and I'm not saying that only players enjoyment matters - I'm saying players and GM matter, in opposition to the viewpoint of GM being the only one whose comfort should be noted, which you, and in general most players (in general, not just here) follow.

As I also said, if Civ V idea gets enough support, I'd like a trial turn. Why not in general? Because if something doesn't have enough support from the start, it's likely a trial wouldn't result in it gaining player's consent anyway, thus becoming useless. Also, I don't see a way for Civ V to actually help, unless it is completely integrated into the game, and at that point we could really just run Civ V MP game with some roleplay. Merely tracking stats in Civ V, in my opinion, does very little (and may even be counterproductive) for reducing GM time spent on the PG.

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17 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:18 am

A 5th option has been slowly percolating in my mind this morning while I get ready to head out to Xahn's.

What if, hear me out... the players don't actually take any direct actions, but rather have things shifted to a far more political perspective?

I'm pretty tired so I'll try to explain by example; let's say Lurem wants to build, I dunno, a new Geothermal Plant. Now they have to appeal to the Council (the players) for this to happen; this goes on the docket for things for the Council to debate. The Council would have to debate if this is allowed at all, what budget it's allowed, and whom would benefit from it, and any other things related to its execution. Then Lurem would go and try to do what the Council ordered (or wouldn't, maybe). I'm thinking in this system each player would still be 'from' a Region and as such more predisposed to that particular Region over others for the sake of infighting and the like.

I dunno, the idea literally came to me in a half dream. Thought I'd mention it.


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18 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:33 pm

This last proposition sounds a lot like the senator level game we had previously, except without player governors. It seems to me that this will need a lot of GM input to keep the game interresting.

I am also unclear how Civ 5 mechanics would translate to actual gameplay. Does it mean we can only construct one thing at a time, with the time it takes to complete being based on our resource production? If so, how is it any different than option 3? Does it include workers improving agricultural production and resource gathering?

I think I prefer option 3, and to eleviate the problem of people enacting too many policies, have a second stat (bureaucracy) to limit these in the same way.

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19 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:53 pm

That last idea sounds good if you feel you can make it work for you. I really dislike the idea of using Civ V as a backend.

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20 Re: Turn 8 Sunday Stream on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:09 pm

I will go ahead and stop bringing up the Civ V idea (which is tremendously ironic really since it was the original idea, hah). Now let me explain why I'm giving this one or two more weeks to decide if it's going to continue at all.

Because, right now as a GM, I am Mass Effect Andromeda.

I rarely have time for more than a first draft outline of what's going on and what's affecting whom. The only real reason the overall arcs have been moving and connecting smoothly is because those were planned out months ago. I literally don't have time to do more than a first draft, and I feel like an absolutely terrible GM for it.

So we'll see if this new 'do it live on Sunday afternoons' format helps anything.


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