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Mass Effect 3, Your Edition

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51 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:48 am

You're probably that the Mass Relays jumps could be linked together through the chain (like I did at first). But, if that were the case, then there would be no primary or secondary relays. Given that there can be multiple Mass Relays in a system or nebula, it stands to reason that the ship traversing the chain would have to fly from one relay to the next to continue their travels.

That is most likely reason why the trip from the Citadel to Ilos took several hours.

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52 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:48 am

Now, one of SilverDragonRed's points still eats at me though.  How, exactly would Shepard convince the Council about the Reaper threat?  Via Politics the Council has often swept the Reapers under the Rug.  There is very little evidence of them besides the husk of a "ship" and some bodies.  TIM might be able to provide leverage, but in the world of politics I find Shepard is just outgunned.  The Races are not going to want to give up the power the relays give them.  What Shepard would suggest is simply not politically convenient.  They simply would not go for it, I think..  Those that are indoctrinated would be even less inclined.  I believe I have an idea though, which you all may like, taking a little from what I thought up.
Keep with the idea of the main antagonists being indoctrinated forces, but expand the reason beyond TIM.  Have the reason "appear" to be the Reapers themselves.  Have a scout group lead by Harbinger spread out to cause chaos across the planets and indoctrinate troops for the incoming invasion.  Have one Reaper attack the citadel during Shepard's trial.  That will be all the proof the Council needs to act against the “invaders”.  
You could then go from there.  
I think there would be tension but not life threatening.  There is still time to stop the invasion.  The stress comes from figuring out which entrance relays need to be shut down and how.  I would recommended using the Citadel as part of the solution though.  It is reaper tech too.



Last edited by 789TheN00B on Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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53 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:14 am

789TheN00B wrote:How, exactly would Shepard convince the Council about the Reaper threat?  Via Politics the Council has often swept the Reapers under the Rug.  There is very little evidence of them besides the husk of a "ship" and some bodies.
This brings up the single biggest thing that pissed me off more than the ending(s) to ME3.  The brain-dead, out of nowhere Derelict Reaper mission.  There is all the PROOF Shepard could ever need for the existence of the Reaper threat (and maybe also the Klendagon gun).

Why does the game not give us the option to call someone from the SA or the Citadel to send a ship to investigate (or at least corroborate) the massive vessels?  What is the hurry that requires Shepard to board as soon as they get there?  Why not contact someone while in transit to the Reaper?

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54 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:38 am

@789TheNOOB

I like the idea of the Reaper's attacking in small groups.
Have them cause massive damage on a council race system planet, or maybe you are forced to blow up the Mass relay in that system (a la "Arrival" DLC this time for a more dramatic and tragic effect Wink) and Shepard has obvious evidence of the threat the Reaper's present and the consequences of ignoring said threat.

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55 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:22 pm

SilverDragonRed wrote:You're probably that the Mass Relays jumps could be linked together through the chain (like I did at first).  But, if that were the case, then there would be no primary or secondary relays.  Given that there can be multiple Mass Relays in a system or nebula, it stands to reason that the ship traversing the chain would have to fly from one relay to the next to continue their travels.

That is most likely reason why the trip from the Citadel to Ilos took several hours.
they would also have to use standard FTL if Ilos was not the relay system which is likely for it to have stayed hidden for so long

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56 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:05 am

@SilverDragonRed
I think it has something to do with the way Shepard's character is written.

@Samu
Glad you do.  Smile  



Last edited by 789TheN00B on Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total

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57 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:13 am

Ok. Here goes...


Spoiler:
The first scene in Mass Effect 3 would be Shepard sleeping in his/her bed in the loft with either their LI or alone, depending. Shepard would be roused from sleep by EDI alerting them that a communication from the Alliance was coming through.

On the other end would be Admiral Anderson. Regardless of whether or not you placed Anderson on the Council, he would step down and take up his old position. It's an indication that the proverbial shit is hitting the literal fan. Anderson would inform Shepard that he/she has been charged with War Crimes against the Batarians, including Genocide, Subversion and a host of other charges.

You have three hours to alert your crew and issue instructions. This is where the first instance of your choices mattering would occur. If everyone survived and is loyal, this goes off with out a hitch. Obviously, Samara, Jack and Zaeed would have departed before now as their obligations have ended, and Grunt would be on Tuchanka doing the obvious.

The remaining crew, depending on how loyal they are, receive instructions from Shepard. For the sake of this exercise, it would go as follows:

Daniels and Donnly would get the schematics for the Normandy's engines and weapons into the hands of the Alliance for reproduction.

Garrus would attempt to harden the Turians defenses and early warning systems.

Jacob would make sure that the schematics for all weapons Shepard collected over the last few months got into the hands of every weapons manufacturer in the galaxy.

Miranda would use any contacts she had left inside Cerberus to find out what was going on inside the organization.

Thane would use his network of spies to keep tabs on everyone on the Citadel. Anyone showing signs of Indoctrination would be eliminated quietly.

Tali would be sent to see if she could pry the Admiralty's heads out of their collective asses and to see if there was anything that could be done to help the Flotilla help the rest of the galaxy.

And all the crew, Joker included, would be told to keep quiet about EDI. She would leave the how up to Joker and EDI.

As the meeting ends and the room is empty, Shepard would either A. If no LI is present, take out his/her pistol to look it over, implying that if he/she were to ever feel if they are being Indoctrinated, they have a last resort, or B. Ask their LI to take them out if they ever showed signs of Indoctrination. How this plays out, depends on the LI.

As that ends, Shepard would go around the ship to speak to the crew. This is another way that the choices mattered. How the crew responds depends on the choices you've made in ME2 regarding their well being, the biggest being the food issue. An army marches on it's stomach, of course.

After she has done this, two hours have passed. She then goes to see if Miranda has found anything out. But both are only left with more questions as nearly every extraneous cell of Cerberus is gone. As in dead. There were no signs of battle, except that each and every person died of a single gun shot to the head. Cerberus has purged it's cells that qualify as more liability than asset. Shepard tells Miranda to get in touch with the Shadow Broker to see what the two of them could figure out.

Shepard than pays Joker a visit on the bridge. The two have a moment as friends, or as frenemies. Depending on how you've treated Joker, it could go either way.

As the tension or humor of the conversation reaches the climax, the ships escorting the Normandy to Arcturus arrive and the Normandy is boarded for the first time.

On CIC, both Admiral Anderson and Admiral Hackett are present. The two of them together on the Normandy would be an 'Oh shit' moment for Shepard. She is placed in shackles, and depending on how Shepard has acted previously, is either escorted or led off of the Normandy. The latter would be hands in front, in between the Admirals. The latter would be hands in back, between two unknown soldiers.

In the cinematic where Shepard is led off of the Normandy, one of two things could happen. 1. If Shepard treated the crew well, i.e. did all the quests to improve their living conditions, they would rip off their Cerberus badges as a show of support. Or 2. The crew could just stand there, watching Shepard being led off of the Normandy, almost glad the tyrant is gone.

If Shepard is a Spacer, Admiral Hanna Shepard is there to greet them as they are placed in the cell. This could either be a heart breaking or a touching scene, depending on how Shepard has been played. Both are good for character development of Shepard themselves.

If Shepard is Earth born, Admiral Anderson stays behind, and the two share a few parting words. Again, depending on how Shepard was played, this could be either a great moment of catharsis, or just another straw on the camel's back.

If Shepard was a Colonist, Admiral Hackett stays behind. the two speak about how Shepard has risen so far, and how hard it is for Hackett to watch it all be taken away by politics. Shepard could either respond with quiet determination, or out right hostility toward the Batarians for daring to do something so stupid, now, of all times.

The three ships, one of which was a ship that was rescued in ME2, if you did the quest,  plus the Normandy, leave the area in a flash of light. As they approach Arcturus, we watch as the four enter the docking area, the Normandy being the last, the flood lights reflecting off of the hull as the scene ends abruptly.

The next scene is Jacob trying to sleep and giving up entirely. He gets up out of bed and we find that we are in control of Jacob Taylor. We can explore the immediate area of Arcturus, speak to people and gain some insight as to what is going on between the Humans and Batarians at the moment. When that is done, Jacob takes the elevator to the training area. As it's the wee hours of the 'morning', the only other person there is a heavily muscled human with tribal tattoos on his arms.

This is where we're introduced Vega. The two converse and the player is able to choose what Jacob thinks about Shepard. It could go many ways, from admiration from afar, to out right loathing, to highest respect, subtle indication of a romantic relationship, or even a few areas in between. This is where we would learn that the Batarians have backed Earth into a corner, politically as well as militarily.

Half the Batarian fleet is in orbit around Earth, a not so subtle reminder of what could happen should the Alliance not comply. The Council is staying out of it so far, but everyone is on edge. No one wants open conflict between the two for obvious reasons. The scene ends with the two in a friendly sparring match to kill time till Vega's next shift.

Shepard is then escorted to Earth where the scene leading to the Alliance Parliament building is barely controlled chaos. There are protesters chanting their support for Shepard. Depending on how Shepard treated others in the previous two games, there could be a fair number of Salarian, Turian and even a few Asari in the crowd.

It's no secret that the trial itself is a sham. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together would figure this out. Shepard is introduced to their council. They were barred from speaking with Shepard because the Batarians accused them of trying to give her secrets. The Alliance, scared out of it's collective wits by what it knows awaits them and what is here now, has acquiesced to every request and demand made by the Batarians. Some have taken this as a show of weakness, others, as confirmation that the Alliance is far stronger than it lets on.

In the court room, depending on your actions in ME2, specifically with Alchera, the seats in the audience could be taken up by family members of the original Normandy's crew, each wearing the dog tag that you found. Also there are Wong and Al Jilanni. Each day the trial goes on would be book-ended with 'news reports' from either reporter. Depending on how you treated them, the reports of you could be full of upbeat recounting of events by Wong, and grudging respect from Al Jilanni. Or, an almost scathing report, and outright bashing.

The trial lasts all of three days. The Batarian representatives on the Prosecution put forward accusations which are shot down by the Defense over and over. This goes back and forth with the Batarians' complaints growing louder each time, until they have had enough. They know this is a sham, yet they were unable to push the Alliance so far as to just giving them Shepard with no strings attached.

The accusations and threats fly in the court room and the judges are unable to restore order. The Batarians threaten to bring the other half of their fleet to Earth and raze the planet to the ground. One of three things could happen here.

1. Shepard, having had enough, unleashes a torrent of accusations toward the Batarians. This is met with the Batarian ships moving to engage the Alliance Fleet around Earth only to have Reapers appear from the Relay, laying waste to half of both fleets in a surprise attack that leaves both navy's severely wounded as Earth is abandoned. The title shows as Earth is in flames.

2. Shepard, having had enough, attempts to assist the judges to restore order in the court. Shepard attempts to offer themselves as collateral to stave off the shooting war threatening to take place in orbit. The Reapers invade at that moment, taking advantage of the confusion and laying waste to Earth. The title shows as Earth is in flames. This is different from the first scenario since Shepard would be viewed more favorably by the other races. This is a good beginning, but not the best.

3. Shepard, having had enough, stands from their seat, and at the top of their lungs, calls out for everyone to stop. Because of the respect garnered by Shepard in the first to games, nearly everyone stops what they are doing and looks to Shepard. Shepard, taking a calculated risk, offers themselves as prisoner in an effort to stop the potential bloodshed. The Batarians, having a grudging respect for Shepard, agree.

The walk to the shuttle feels slower than the walk to the building. Shepard is taking their time. Just before they gets on the shuttle, Shepard turns to the crowd and addresses them directly. I am no master of speeches, but it would be something rousing to both calm them and subtly tell them that their anger should be directed to greater things.

Shepard enters the shuttle and is taken from Earth. The title shows as the Earth grows dark.

That would be the first part of how my ME3 would play out.



Last edited by Braigwen on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spoiler for wall of text)

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58 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:57 pm

Uh....the one that was released in 2012. People are still on about ME3 all these years later?


I remember making a three part video series on Metal Gear Solid 4 and how portions of it failed.

Back in 2009.

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59 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:19 pm

JudgeSpektre wrote:Uh....the one that was released in 2012. People are still on about ME3 all these  years later?


I remember making a three part video series on Metal Gear Solid 4 and how portions of it failed.

Back in 2009.

Yes, we are talking about that Mass Effect.

Recently, I saw some posts on Tumblr discussing Romeo & Juliet. The one that was first performed in 1597.

When something is good enough, people remember it even when it isn't new.


The major issue I have with Mass Effect 3, structurally, is the emphasis on Humanity and the relegation of all other species to supporting roles. Other posters have picked at a symptom of this - Cerberus' impossible power. But there are other problems with the same root cause, such as the Council's decision to not treat the invasion of earth as being more important than the invasions of Palaven and Thessia being portrayed as anything other than an obviously correct strategic judgement, or the Reapers moving the Citadel to Earth just in time for the big final battle.

The roots of this issue are visible in Mass Effect 2. Harbinger speaks dismissively of every species except humanity, which validates the Illusive Man's extreme human nationalism. But this is just some ambient dialog shoring up a character's idiosyncratic political viewpoint.

The problem dominates the plot of Mass Effect 3, in which the human fleet is the banner to which Shepard must rally all the other Citadel powers, and Cerberus somehow has a fleet comparable to the Systems Alliance's forces. Shepard, the Champion of Humanity, saves each of the species from some problem, and in return receives their support in the great Battle For Earth, which is also the battle for the galaxy, because of course the fate of Earth is the fate of the galaxy. Of course humans are the most important. That's how it is in Star Wars and Star Trek, why should Mass Effect be different?

Well, the first Mass Effect was different. In the first Mass Effect the Systems Alliance was a distinctly junior player in Citadel politics Sure, at the end humanity gets a council seat by saving the council from an existential threat, but that is exactly how the Turians earned their seat. We're still the new kids and the other Council species still have a plausible argument for regarding us as junior partners.

But in Mass Effect 2 and 3, that is reinterpreted (I admit it doesn't rise to the level of a retcon) to mean that Humanity was propelled to dominance. This allows us to play the role of the Protheans in the Reaper's designed cycle of history, which includes producing the powerful Cerberus seen in 3.

So what would I have done? Simply put, I would have made it central to the plot of 3 that no species could fit into the Prothean's role, and the reason is that the Asari, who according to the Reapers should have done that, chose instead to take the high road. In Mass Effect, it is the Asari, not humans, who chose to build a polity analogous to Star Trek's Federation of Planets, when exclusive control of the Citadel would have enabled them to build an empire, just as the Protheans did before them and just as every species who got to the Citadel first chose to do in every prior cycle. The Asari built a galaxy with no political single point of failure - not even the Council itself. A Galaxy in which there is no capitol world whose loss breaks the resistance - losing any one of Thessia, Palaven, Sur'Kesh, or Earth doesn't break the Council. I would have written it so that the council does lose one - Earth. Cerberus undermines the Systems Alliance badly enough that half their fleet is compromised and defects (oh look, I gave Cerberus a military and explained where it came from), so that we are effectively knocked out of the war. Cerberus is a specifically human phenomenon they are unable to undermine anyone else, yet to match their predecessors in earlier cycles they would have had to simultaneously undermine everyone else. The Systems Alliance doesn't make or break the whole galaxy, so Shepard is still able to save every species except her own.

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60 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:08 pm

01d55 wrote:
JudgeSpektre wrote:Uh....the one that was released in 2012. People are still on about ME3 all these  years later?


I remember making a three part video series on Metal Gear Solid 4 and how portions of it failed.

Back in 2009.

Yes, we are talking about that Mass Effect.

Recently, I saw some posts on Tumblr discussing Romeo & Juliet. The one that was first performed in 1597.

When something is good enough, people remember it even when it isn't new.


The major issue I have with Mass Effect 3, structurally, is the emphasis on Humanity and the relegation of all other species to supporting roles. Other posters have picked at a symptom of this - Cerberus' impossible power. But there are other problems with the same root cause, such as the Council's decision to not treat the invasion of earth as being more important than the invasions of Palaven and Thessia being portrayed as anything other than an obviously correct strategic judgement, or the Reapers moving the Citadel to Earth just in time for the big final battle.

The roots of this issue are visible in Mass Effect 2. Harbinger speaks dismissively of every species except humanity, which validates the Illusive Man's extreme human nationalism. But this is just some ambient dialog shoring up a character's idiosyncratic political viewpoint.

The problem dominates the plot of Mass Effect 3, in which the human fleet is the banner to which Shepard must rally all the other Citadel powers, and Cerberus somehow has a fleet comparable to the Systems Alliance's forces. Shepard, the Champion of Humanity, saves each of the species from some problem, and in return receives their support in the great Battle For Earth, which is also the battle for the galaxy, because of course the fate of Earth is the fate of the galaxy. Of course humans are the most important. That's how it is in Star Wars and Star Trek, why should Mass Effect be different?

Well, the first Mass Effect was different. In the first Mass Effect the Systems Alliance was a distinctly junior player in Citadel politics Sure, at the end humanity gets a council seat by saving the council from an existential threat, but that is exactly how the Turians earned their seat. We're still the new kids and the other Council species still have a plausible argument for regarding us as junior partners.

But in Mass Effect 2 and 3, that is reinterpreted (I admit it doesn't rise to the level of a retcon) to mean that Humanity was propelled to dominance. This allows us to play the role of the Protheans in the Reaper's designed cycle of history, which includes producing the powerful Cerberus seen in 3.

So what would I have done? Simply put, I would have made it central to the plot of 3 that no species could fit into the Prothean's role, and the reason is that the Asari, who according to the Reapers should have done that, chose instead to take the high road. In Mass Effect, it is the Asari, not humans, who chose to build a polity analogous to Star Trek's Federation of Planets, when exclusive control of the Citadel would have enabled them to build an empire, just as the Protheans did before them and just as every species who got to the Citadel first chose to do in every prior cycle. The Asari built a galaxy with no political single point of failure - not even the Council itself. A Galaxy in which there is no capitol world whose loss breaks the resistance - losing any one of Thessia, Palaven, Sur'Kesh, or Earth doesn't break the Council. I would have written it so that the council does lose one - Earth. Cerberus undermines the Systems Alliance badly enough that half their fleet is compromised and defects (oh look, I gave Cerberus a military and explained where it came from), so that we are effectively knocked out of the war. Cerberus is a specifically human phenomenon they are unable to undermine anyone else, yet to match their predecessors in earlier cycles they would have had to simultaneously undermine everyone else. The Systems Alliance doesn't make or break the whole galaxy, so Shepard is still able to save every species except her own.



I spent a decade on the Metal Gear series. I said my piece and moved on.there's a line between "discussing" something and borderline obsessing over it.

Bioware are putting as much distance as possible between them and the old trilogy going into the next game. I'd be shocked to get more than a passing reference of anything.


All These idle "what I would have done" smacks a tad of living in the past.


But hey its your time. Spend it however you wish. I'll just never understand it personally.

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61 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:24 am

People are just having some harmless fun talking about a game that meant something to them. No need to be a dick about it JudgeSpektre.

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62 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:18 am

Not to mention that if people don't talk about it how are the lessons supposed to be learned?

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63 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:21 pm

Kolson Wezrae wrote:People are just having some harmless fun talking about a game that meant something to them. No need to be a dick about it JudgeSpektre.






I made a comment not addressing anyone by name. I was quoted and responded. All things considered I was actually holding myself back from wording things closer to how I actually feel on the subject.


As I said it's your time. Spend it how you want.

Neutral


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64 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:25 pm

I call it like I see it. Your need to comment at all was condescending in itself and your feelings on the matter came through loud and clear. If you don't have anything nice to say go start a topic about something you do care about and leave us to our discussion in peace.

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65 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:03 am

Kolson Wezrae wrote:I call it like I see it. Your need to comment at all was condescending in itself and your feelings on the matter came through loud and clear. If you don't have anything nice to say go start a topic about something you do care about and leave us to our discussion in peace.


No it wasn't. I answered the question asked in the title. I then made an off hand comment and went on my marry way. I'm only here now because people either keep quoting me or bringing my name of into this.


I'd love to leave you all to your own devices. Stop talking to me and I will. Fair enough?

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66 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:18 am

You made a transparent asshat comment, hinted at "true feelings" to try to cover up how much of an asshat you were being but not really, and then left us to "our own devices" as if we needed your permission in the first place. I implore you, stop being a dick.

And no, I'm not going to stop talking to you. That is not the point of this forum. What if we end up part of a great discussion someday, do you really want your shitty behavior in this one instance to define all of our future interactions? I don't. If you don't either, apologize and let's part as respected peers rather than slinking off into the dark shadows of the internet never to talk to each other again. What say you?

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67 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:19 am

Kolson Wezrae wrote:You made a transparent asshat comment, hinted at "true feelings" to try to cover up how much of an asshat you were being but not really, and then left us to "our own devices" as if we needed your permission in the first place. I implore you, stop being a dick.

And no, I'm not going to stop talking to you. That is not the point of this forum. What if we end up part of a great discussion someday, do you really want your shitty behavior in this one instance to define all of our future interactions? I don't. If you don't either, apologize and let's part as respected peers rather than slinking off into the dark shadows of the internet never to talk to each other again. What say you?



You want me to apologize for something I'm honestly not sorry for? What's the value of that? My father always told me not to say sorry unless I really feel that way.


I'm a very opinionated person. I tend to voice that in a very blunt fashion. I guess I am regretful that I didn't keep my thoughts to myself and kicking up this drama.


Most of my internet interactions end up like this. With me being Mr. Killjoy. I just need to learn to shut up in the future.


And BTW. Of course you don't need my permission to do anything. I'm just some guy with a chip on his shoulder.

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68 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:15 am

Regretting kicking up a fuss where there didn't need to be one is all the apology was about if we get down to it. And you aren't a killjoy. You made one mistake. So what? You sound sorry to me and your last post is the most honest one you've done so far in this thread. That means something and I thank you for that.

When I said make a topic you care about I meant it. It's okay to be passionate about things around here. But part of what makes that okay is that people have to feel safe when they share even when some other people may or may not think the topic is worthwhile or that people haven't moved on like they should. Do you understand?

Also things don't have to be terrible for you online. I think I can help you with that if you're interested. Shoot me a PM and we can talk about it some more if you want.

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69 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:41 pm

Well as my first post on this forum, heres my take on what Mass Effect 3 should have been like. It can't be helped but part of the problem of Mass Effect 3 is that its story was developed in a way that a new player could jump right in and feel included on the experience of the game. I played Mass Effect 1 after I played Mass Effect 2 and 3, wow were there so many elements in that game that were not brought up again.

Before I played any Mass Effect game, I heard from people that "Each game continues your story to the next one, the choices you make in each game transfer over to the next one!". That was one of the main appeals I heard from people, Mass Effect seemed to be the first console series to do this. They seriously needed to make the players choices matter in Mass Effect 3 as that was one of the main hype points of the series. Guess which missions get the most praise? Tunchanka and Rannoch, because player choices received payoff. The beginning and ending of Mass Effect 3 do not respect the players choices and decisions in the series.

Even after watching the endings on Youtube before playing ME3, I had no idea how bad the Earth Mission was until I played it. That needs a complete overhaul so it is satisfying and logical like the Suicide Mission (which also received praise for player choice and payoff).



Last edited by Norulezx on Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Refining thoughts)

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70 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:25 am

One of the problems with Mass Effect is that this concept of choice and carryover decisions is very difficult to pull off, and even more so with the standards of quality of an AAA game. It's a situation were the budget had to be spread to account for every possible permutation of a scene, and it had to look as nice as games that don't have to do this. It's really not surprising that most consequences take the form of alternative lines that fit into the mold of a fixed story. This is true even for Tuchanka and Rannoch. Actual story forks, alternative levels and cinematics are hard to justify when you could instead use the money to make a single instance as good as it can be.

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71 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:52 am

Mass Effect problems didn't start with ME3. Entire series had some flawed fundaments from the start.

Exploration was in my opinion bad in ME1. Yes, the main plot planets were kinda cool looking and enjoyable, but that's it - all of them took just few hours to finish. Compare that to visiting dozens, tens of completaly simmilar, kinda small asteroids and moons, that played out almost identically. It basicly made me make desicion not to play any Side Quests in ME, as they didn't have any real substance to them - discounting party-related quests, and some more insteresint ones, which were in minority. Mass Effect suffers, because instead of making few planets that we visit huge, fleshed out, filled with content and this feel of wonder (exactly what Kotor did), they decided to make literal dozens of planets, all of which last just two hours at best. ME2 and ME3 suffer from same problem - we visit so many different planets and locations, but how many of them do you truly remember? Because planets in Kotors were unique, felt unique - each one had different color palette, different enemies, different lore, different music. All of them screamed of being unique worlds, making them even more remarkable. Each of the locations, each dungeon felt like a part of greater whole, yet still unique. I cannot say the same for ME series.

Paragon/Renegate was on the other hand interesting concept, but executed horribly. Instead of making a traditional situation, where being charismatic requiers being charismatic, making you have to actually make a choice of being more competent fighter, or a speaker, Mass Effect kinda shoved it together. It wasn't that bad in ME1, but in ME2 game actually restricted you, unless you were enough single-minded. It makes playing series not about creating "your Shepard" and more about choosing which of two you prefer. That is just bad design. Yes, game should play out differently based on how you make your decisions, but it shouldn't be about being orange/blue enough. All the plot lines should be equally "good", just different. Grey, if you will. The very fact, that for example during Tali's trial we could normally choose her or her father's honor, unless we are Paragon or Renegate, then we may save both, was stupid. I didn't feel like in Kotor, where I actually had to search throughout entire Manaan to find evidence about the murder case, and I had to use my actual brain to solve it. In Mass Effect, you don't have to use any effort to gain anything at all, no thought, no strategy, no anything. You just have to follow literal "party line". I may call Mass Effect a game about choices, but not about fill interactivity.

Add to the fact so many actual problems of the plot. We know, that Sovereign was active for thousands of years, literally. And how much does it take for Reapers to go from this void to us? Few years... -_- Take into consideration, that Reapers were supposed to be in a hurry. So why didn't Sovereign just go to his companions and get them to Milky Way "on foot" Yes, it would take time... but not two thousand years. And they would still be a surprise for the Galaxy, it's not like all the Citadel would literally just destroy Reapers if they just saw them. And if the Reapers would use Rachni to back them up, they would anihilate their enemies. And how the hell did Harbinger awake? Weren't Reapers suppose to be hibernating? And why Sovereign didn't use Collectors in any way?

You know, I have met people solving those plot holes, I did. The problem is, noone in game tries to solve them. Noone is scratching their heads, when Reapers are revealed to be at our doorstep, awakened. It's just bad writing, not thought out. It could all be solved by people just asking freaking question, adressing the problem. Then the writers could hint sollution, leaving the true question for players to be answered. But they do not do that. It's a negative few people really adress, which bugs me. We are not talking here about characters coming to life in a vague way, or some deus ex machina revealed. It can be explained, but it is just really bad writing in a situtation, where careful plot design and proper character reactions were literally the focus.

In my opinion, ME 3 should start by fixing ME2 and ME1 problems. Have people adress the problem of Reapers having woken up, and attacking the galaxy. Have people actually doubt Shepard in some way - it was there, just not really executed properly. Have the plot focus more on the source of the invasion, the Harbinger. Make him real antagonist, with Shepard figuring out how Reapers really do function. Don't explain their backstory, explain their mechanisms. You know, reverse engineering. Have people be prepared to fight the Reapers, have the plot focus on war. Citadel races united as one cohesive force and us being sent as a special team (as throughout entire series till this point) to help target specific military targets of the Reapers. One time we help defend a planet from invasion, another we strike at a literal "factory" of husks and indoctrinated people. Another, we proceed with an terroristic strike at Reapers themselfs, killing some of them. Have Reapers actually be smaller in numbers and using indoctrinated forces (for example ME1 style fleet composed of indoctrinated armies). Have the human Reaper and Harbinger's reasoning explained. Have the story and your choices matter in a more literal way - literally engineering a situation, where you have to make strategic choices based not on your morality meter, but on advices of your companions, military personel and your own intuition. Choices that actually influence the story - like making a point whether and how do you loose a specific battle, which proceeds to have consequences later in game. If you want to have a war, make it war, true WAR. Not... this. And make assault on Earth or whatever final dungeon a big campaign - one that involves literal hours of gameplay - both fighting legions of enemies and using your brain in various situations. Have the final battle be against Harbinger as the only battle against a boss Reaper. Make the final dungeon be just as epic as it should be, implementing all the cthulu-like mythos of the games to their fullest extent. Have you using literally, all companions throughout entire series in this one big mission. And yes, have a final desicion available. But not just A, B, or C. Make them actually different and make player actually having to do some action to achieve those endings - kinda like in Deus Ex, where you have to play through final dungeon in a different way based on ending you want to achieve. And then, have the final moment of the game be about you and your friends enjoying themselfs like they should, just before the credits roll, or there being kinda vague, but conclusive end with you staring as Reapers are destroyed one by one.

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72 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:51 pm

Norulezx wrote:I played Mass Effect 1 after I played Mass Effect 2 and 3, wow were there so many elements in that game that were not brought up again.
First one off the top of my head is the plight of human biotics.  The situation was bad enough in the first game that the biotic community was turning to terrorism to try and influence the politicians, and get the problem resolved.  ME2, it's never mentioned outside of an e-mail or two.


Having replayed ME2 recently though, I ran across an unusual problem in regards to the Suicide Mission.  I wanted to get out of it with only Jack and Morinth alive, but kept having to restart it because too many people were surviving.  After a few attempts I managed to whittle down the survivor count to four; the two intended, Miranda, and Jacob.

Going to ME3 with that save, the trilogy ended with EDI and Jacob being the only two squadmates to survive the entire thing.  STEEEEEEVEEE!, of course, did not make it.

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73 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:08 pm

SilverDragonRed wrote:
Norulezx wrote:I played Mass Effect 1 after I played Mass Effect 2 and 3, wow were there so many elements in that game that were not brought up again.
First one off the top of my head is the plight of human biotics.  The situation was bad enough in the first game that the biotic community was turning to terrorism to try and influence the politicians, and get the problem resolved.  ME2, it's never mentioned outside of an e-mail or two.

They could easily have incorporated that subplot into Mass Effect 2 as they incorporated the Genophage and the Quarian/Geth subplots. We have 3 human biotics on our team, not mention Miranda and Jack have a rivalry.

... and they are all involved with Cerberus Shocked

Huh, yeah if they were really going to use the Dark Energy plotline for the Reapers motivation, they would need to have the Human Biotic plot line be incorporated in all the games. Thats the only way it would work then

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74 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:13 pm

Yeah...about that Dark Energy plot.

It involved some really weird things in it, like a time travelling Harbinger and Dark Energy Energy Beings, or Neutronium Energy Beings just to make things easier.  Although at least there the three ending choices made sense and tied into something else in the story.


If there was a facepalm emoticon, I would be using it. Cause frankly, I forgot about the second most important thing that was dropped. Shepard's contact with Prothean beacons, and the Cypher from Feros. It was something that answered the question of why we're following Shepard, and it never comes up in any meaningful plot way in ME2. You think it would when you're facing the bastardized remains of a species Shepard has an intrinsic understanding of.

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75 Re: Mass Effect 3, Your Edition on Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:29 pm

I hate to say it, but Liara not being involved in Mass Effect 2 kinda shows how much they wanted to stay away from Mass Effect 1 story progression wise. Here me out, Bioware emphasis's Liara's importance throughout the trilogy yet leaves her out of the fun in Mass Effect 2 as a squad mate. It seems like the goal of Mass Effect 2 was to flesh out the Mass Effect universe before the reapers invaded.

That was fine and did a good job. However, whats the difference between the role of the collectors and that of Cerberus in ME3? Our actions in Mass Effect 2 are literally inconsequential to the reapers. Hell at least when we stopped Saren and Sovereign from opening the Citadel Mass Relay, we saved the entire galaxy from an ambush by the reapers and allowed extra time for preparations to be made.
Stopping the collectors from abducting human colonies and destroying the Human Reaper? No problem, Cerberus will start abducting and invading human colonies and turn them into indoctrinated soldiers. We killed the Human Reaper? No problem, the Reapers will build another one now that the Illusive Man reminded them that they control the Citadel. Now that I think about it, thanks TIM for making everything we did in Mass Effect 2 pointless. Laughing

I think I like the idea of Harbinger being an alien living inside the Reaper shell kinda like David Archer.

Oh no I rambled by accident Razz Yes the prothean beacons and the cypher should have had some relevance in ME2. Maybe discover some another beacon in Collector Base that gave a clue towards a super weapon or hidden weakness to defeat the Reapers? Maybe thats what they had intended but instead wanted to give the player a choice between saving the collector base or destroying it.

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