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Disney did the right thing

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1 Disney did the right thing on Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:39 pm

I got into an argument with K about this on stream when he said he'd rather have TOR be canon than Disney... Even though TOR doesn't recognize Disney as canon and vice versa.

Normally I see people complaining about how Disney erased the star wars EU off the face of existence. Except that's not entirely true. That's a lie. And it comes off as bitching when canon is up to your own interpretation anyway (Even though, hypocritically some people fuse the EU with the AU sometimes. I'm looking at you TCW). Disney got rid of the old canon because they wanted to make their own stories free from the restrictions of past EU and wanted to move forward. From someone that owns the franchise I don't see the problem with this. Of course there are some awesome part of star wars canon, but in hindsight there is a lot of stupid, stupid, stupid pieces of the EU. The inconsistencies and to be frank bad writing is extremely prominent in the EU. I.E. Vong, TOR, force ghosts, force sensitive droids, and making friends with sand people are just a few of the things to list off.

Disney simply pulled a Fallout and wiped the slate clean. Pushed the reset button for more stories to be told without being bogged down in the past EU.

One last thing I'd like to mention. What if you wrote a book, and people liked that book so they created all types of fanfiction. Cool, 50 years later you got your stuff together and want to sit down and finish your book. You get to writing and publish book two to the trilogy. And what happens? Everyone one was like wtf? What about my [insert fanfic here]? Why doesn't the MC get with this new character [insert cliche twat here]? And your like what? You had your fun there, but look at me. This is my story now. When I'm done you can have your stories. K?

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2 Re: Disney did the right thing on Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:32 pm

It will depending on what Disney is now actually doing with the characters in the future.
I for example liked a lot of the new characters of the EU like Mara Jade, Ben Skywalker or Jacen and Jaina Solo.

What I already don´t like about the new canon is what they let Marvel do with Han Solo in the new Marvel Star Wars comics.
The Comics play between Empire Strikes Back and A New Hope.

Han was married the whole time, what let´s you look at certain points of the movies in a whole new light if you accept it as canon.

So all I can say about what´s the best thing to is:
pick what you like from the EU; KOTOR, TOR and even the original Movies (before remastering for example, keyword "Han Shot first") and make it your headcanon.

Because yeah, what you said is true, there was a lot of crap in the past EU, but there will be as well a ton of crap in the new canon as well, so to hell with it.

BTW I loved the Story Arc of the Jedi Knight in TOR, so it is already canon for me Cool

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3 Re: Disney did the right thing on Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:27 pm

I’m just stating my opinion, I’m not going to argue though because Star Wars should just be enjoyed for what it is and people should consider what they like to be canon to them and not have some evil mouse dictate that to them and people who agree with it should be happy.
Disney is a corporation, if they gave a damn about the fans they wouldn't have rushed this film like they did to release in 2015 and could’ve easily had Episode 7 take place 100+ years later to make everyone happy since it would’ve serviced both older generation fans and new while giving reign to new stories/characters without stepping on anyone’s toes. But they chose to whitewash a chunk 30 years of material people grew up with for the sake of wanting to milk money off those who draw it without jumping through loops, which I get – but it doesn’t ignore the incentive behind it, money.
However the problem though is the EU covered a lot of plot holes from the movies and saying they’re not canon only makes them a relevant issue again unless they cover it in these new stories. So regardless they’ll have to visit them if they want to match what made the EU special for a lot of people - not to mention the years it will take to patch up this mess because as it stands there are more questions than answers and a dark cloud of confusion looms over as to what is and isn’t canon because of this whole ordeal.

I like some of the new stuff, not all, same went for the old, you take the good with the bad. But again, it's fiction, it's meant to be enjoyed by personal perception so no one should let this dictate what this is to them. Smile

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4 Re: Disney did the right thing on Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:53 pm

What plot holes from the movies are you talking about?

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5 Re: Disney did the right thing on Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:09 pm

SilverDragonRed wrote:What plot holes from the movies are you talking about?
*sigh* Here I'm not gonna type bunch of stuff sample size more condradictions than plot holes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGb1T7nEl6Y

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6 Re: Disney did the right thing on Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:17 pm

The guy in the video confuses contradiction with lack of explanation a lot. And yes some things in the AU do piss me off like Luke meeting Vader before Bespin, Han being married, and magic. Plus, people pretend that Disney can't fix the wholes themselves in time. Its not like as soon as the EU came out there was an explanation for absolutely everything.

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7 Re: Disney did the right thing on Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:16 am

I will let time tell how well this new EU pans out, but I have to ask this question as I know little about how it happens. How does Han being married not hurt his character since he is essentially cheating on his wife during this period? Does he break up with her before Empire?

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8 Re: Disney did the right thing on Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:46 am

That was an argument?

EDIT: Ok, look. It's not their book. They didn't write a thing for it until George got greedy and sold it to them for a fortune.

And yes, he got greedy. He could have done fifty fucking things (disclaimer, i might swear) other than sell his empire to one of the most dishonest entities in the entertainment industry. Most people get a successor, usually someone they trust, to keep their artistic thing going and their company afloat, or do any other kind of company thing where they might leave their work in capable hands. What he did was not what a greedy person doesn't do. He sold Starwars to the highest(?) bidder.

And what did the highest(?) bidder do as their first act upon receiving the IP? They chop it off.

Let me be clear, i would have to try very hard to care less about how sound a business practice what they did was. In one go, they demonstrated to have zero respect for one of the most expansive and beloved and painstakingly built fictional settings in history, for which they hadn't ever lifted a finger except to tear it down once they bought it. There is no legitimacy for them to dictate Starwars canon, and i spit on them for pretending to.

And i spit on George, too. George, you fucking hypocrite. You had more money than any man would ever know what to do with, some of which came out of my pocket, but you just had to get more. That's how butthurt you were over everyone saying your two prequel movies sucked as much as they did. I would have bought any reason or excuse for him to step down, had he done anything but what he did.

Sorry if i sound bitter about it. It's just that i am. I'm usually a bit more reasoned and calm and all that good stuff, but some things just make me devolve.

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9 Re: Disney did the right thing on Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:06 am

@Maz It's safe to say that Sana and Han are separated and have been for a while by the time she appears in the comic. If any thing this new development contrasts nicely with the good man Han is trying to become at this point in his life.

@K He did leave Star Wars to his hand picked successors. Kathleen Kennedy was groomed by him to lead Lucasfilms and to be the brand manager of his properties after Disney bought them all. Dave Filoni worked hand in hand with Lucas on "The Clone Wars" as the show runner for years and now does the same for Disney's flagship Star Wars show "Rebels."

You don't have to like his choices K, but its disingenuous to say that he didn't try to ensure the legacy of Star Wars.

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10 Re: Disney did the right thing on Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:28 am

Some things make me disingenuous, but point. I'm not gonna pretend you didn't catch me on something i didn't know.

At this point, i don't know if it's small of me to rehash that even with that, the EU was chopped off and 1313 and Lucasarts were killed. Leaving your people in charge is all well and good, Kolson, but the people ultimately in control are now Disney. And try as i might - and i'm being honest now, i can find no reason why that move was anywhere near warranted.

I don't know how much of this is true, but i read somewhere that George still had his ideas on how Starwars should progress, and wanted to integrate them into Disney's approach, and Disney flat-out barred him from any further input. If it's true, it pretty much illustrates why it was a bad idea in the first place to sell the IP. He can leave things as well organized as he wants, but from the moment it's off his hands, it's off his hands. And it's not in the hands of the people who worked on it all those years either, it's in Disney's. They have the ultimate say on things, and have very well demonstrated how they're not the least bit shy about it.

Now, maybe i'm wrong. Maybe the decision to cut off the continuity was actually a creative one, by the people he left in charge, but if so, unless that's what he actually intended, something seems to have gone very wrong with his choice of personnel.

I mean, i'm actually ignorant about this, so i have to ask, in case there's anyone in the know reading. Were Lucasfilm or Lucasarts having financial trouble? Was there any actual reason why they couldn't go on being their own thing, instead of being under Disney's thumb?

If so, i'll correct myself. If not, i'm still in the WTF zone about it.

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11 Re: Disney did the right thing on Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:42 pm

I'm bummed about 1313 also, but Disney has made some good moves when it comes to Star Wars games in my book. They are working with GOG to release LucasArts classic game library and they are still letting Bioware do their thing with The Old Republic. Hell, they are even supporting them in their soft reboot of the game later this year. The game that has me most worried at this point is Battlefront 3, which looks and sounds like the poster child for shitty modern game design. I bet its loaded with nickle and dime microtransactions too.

I am also wondering why you care that Disney would ignore the treatment of Star Wars 7 from a man you actively spit on not two posts ago. Which is it K? Do you want him involved or not? Because Lucas' record on the EU is just as sordid as Disney's. He always thought it was a nice thing that made him money but in no way considered any of it as his cannon unless it served his own storytelling needs. Want proof? The Clone Wars in its entirety was this philosophy in action. The only difference between him and Disney is that they aren't lying to you about how important all those stories by other authors were in the grand scheme of things.

Also from what I know LucasArts was indeed in trouble and hadn't had a hit since the original Force Unleashed. But it wasn't a financial trouble, it had more to do with being creatively bankrupt. Would 1313 of reversed their fortunes? I honestly don't know and now we never will.

But more importantly, I think Lucas saw the sale to Disney as a much needed transfusion of creativity and excitement for the process and for Star Wars itself. I mean, look at what Disney has done with the Marvel movies. Now imagine that with Star Wars. Its an exciting time for the franchise and I hope you give them an honest chance K. You still may not like it but at least you'll know you came to that conclusion in the right way.

*Kolson goes back to reading Heir to the Empire.*

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12 Re: Disney did the right thing on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:09 pm

I take back that spit on; it was unwarranted. And honestly, i'd never thought so strongly about it until i did that post.

But to answer your question, it's neither. My problem with it is not whether he's involved or not. My problem is the double standard. He wanted to get the IP off his hands, so he sold it off, but after he sold it off, he wanted to keep playing a role in it. Like you very well put in Which is it?.

On the flip side, Disney pretty much gave him the leper treatment about as soon as the deal was made. Then proceeded to do what it did.

As for creative talent, far as i know, you get that by hiring people who show promise or skill. I don't know how much infusion you get by changing all the upper management. But hey, i could be wrong on that.

As for an honest chance, rest assured i will give it to them. But i'm being honest right now when i tell you that i'm genuinely unexcited about their promises.

I may be proven wrong. Time will tell.

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13 Re: Disney did the right thing on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:32 pm

An article I read on the Escapist around the time LucasArts closed suggested that the management was the problem. It may have been sour grapes on the part of a fired employee but I'm inclined to believe them given the studio's track record by the end.

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14 Re: Disney did the right thing on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:56 pm

I don't see Disney shutting down Lucas' movie ideas necessarily as a bad thing. It could have just been really bad, and based on some of the stuff we got in the prequels, I would be inclined to believe that.

*EDIT* We saw next to nothing about 1313, and a lot of people see it as a game that would have automatically been good. I don't buy that for one second. With all the prettied-up game demos we get a E3 every year, only to be gravely disappointed to learn the game didn't pan out as advertised, I wouldn't have been surprised if 1313 had the same fate.

Of course we will never know, but I've never been that sad about it's demise.

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