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Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser

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26 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:27 pm

Spoiler:
So who wants to bet, that in DA 4 dlc, another one of the companions will disappear through the eluvian only to reapper in the DA5

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27 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:36 pm

I loved Trespasser, and the 2 other DLC's, in my opinion they are the best DLC's Bioware has ever done for Dragon Age and it outshines what we got back in the DA:O days.

Choices and consequenses, satisfying character arcs, loved the combat. Great balance overall, it felt like amazing Bioware content. And it delivered the ending the original game needed. So props to them for pulling this off.

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28 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:52 pm

OmegaSpruz wrote:
Spoiler:
So who wants to bet, that in DA 4 dlc, another one of the companions will disappear through the eluvian only to reapper in the DA5

Spoiler:
Nah I think they're limiting the Eluvian walking apostate heartbreakers to the odd numbered games.

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29 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:04 pm

LaPetitBaguette wrote:
Spoiler:
I came out of that chat with Solas thinking he was a nicer version of Corypheus, he wants to tear down the world and rebuild it to his liking. Still, he was kind of... apologetic about it? That and the way you can try to talk him down and later pledge to save him from himself could mean there's gonna be a way to "soften" him.

Perhaps, but I have no interest in that path. I'll do the same thing to him as I did to Corypheus. He claims he is not a monster, but frankly anyone whose willing to do what he plans pretty much is, regardless of what they say. It cannot be allowed to happen. Oh and that music, omg the music for this DLC was so perfect.

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30 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:26 am

Trespasser was really good! it answered a lot more questions then it asked and it added to the lore, overall its worth a buy! However I do have a few nitpicks, its mostly technical wise and I'm sure it will get patched, but still. The ending screen where they tell us what happened to our companions went so damn fast! I'm not kidding I had to speed run to get the information and I'm pretty sure I missed something, because of how fast it went. Their was also a really awkward jump cut for me that kinda took me out of the scene.

Spoiler:
Also where's my scout harding romance dammit!? She was barley in the dlc. Come on Bioware patch a romance in for her already, jeez.

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31 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:42 am

The epilogue slides really did go too fast, especially considering they're not voiced. You either read the text or look at the picture Shocked

Spoiler:
And apparently the slides reveal a bit about how Leliana survived the Temple of Sacred Ashes if the Warden killed her. Pretty unexpected nice little detail there.

Also it seems that Dorian ends up as a magister no matter what, except maybe if he's in a romance with Bull. Considering that the next game is likely to involve Tevinter, I wonder if they're setting him up for a big role in the DA4

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32 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:50 am

I think the ending credits alone were worth this DLC Cool

Spoiler:
I´m curious what they will do for the next PC, because I think after the ending that our Inquisitor is out of the question, but will definitely make a comeback like Hawke did, just without the fighting (or maybe he gets an Ironhand?)

Overall this one was the best DLC for Dragon Age in generell and it even added new Variations for your skills that you could choose anytime to change what is pretty cool. Also I loved the new Battleaxe I got with the new standardattack improvement Very Happy *Heroic Leap*

Spoiler:
I totally loved the new Mark-Mechanic especially at the end when it had it´s full power and just literally killed everthing around you oO And it was good that they added it as an extra technic without occupying one of the skill slots.

So yeah I´m looking forward to the next DA game. Not a first Day buy, but it´s definitely on my Radar.

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33 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:43 pm

This DLC is the best thing to come from Bioware since, Lair of the Shadow Broker in terms of quality. However, because I made my bitterness and hatred towards Bioware the purpose of my life, I have to play the devils advocate and  well point out a few things;
1. What I will always give credit to Dragon Age Inquisition and Bioware is the ability to throw sand in your eyes. The quality of this game, no matter my own opinion, will be tested by time. Will people come back to play Dragon Age Inquisition, like they do Origins, Morrowind, Skyrim etc.
2. There is a lack of originality to the structure of the dlc. A lot of ideas and even shots were reused. Not particularly a bad thing, but joking aside The inquisitor and the crew starring at Normandy sorry the Breach at the end really bothered me.
3. The Writing is there, however nowhere as good as it used to be. Self referential jokes personally take me out of the game. Overuse of curse words and sexuality defining the characters, or non characters is something of a new thing for Bioware. (thats not a critisim to do with this dlc)

The Future.

It seems bright. Mass Effect 3 was a huge misstep which sent Bioware plummeting towards Oblivion, yet with everything they done so far they have been clawing their way out. I will not call Inquisition a good game, a mediocre at best. However that was a good DLC and if they can keep on improving, the next game could be good and dare I say special.


So My predictions for the future:

Dragon Age 4 - Tevinter v Qunari War which has Solas as the main main bad guy. The Elven city is in the Tevinter Imperium After all
Dragon Age 5 the next blight or at least the warden conflict of Anderfells.

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34 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:58 pm

OmegaSpruz wrote:This DLC is the best thing to come from Bioware since, Lair of the Shadow Broker in terms of quality. However, because I made my bitterness and hatred towards Bioware the purpose of my life, I have to play the devils advocate and  well point out a few things;
1. What I will always give credit to Dragon Age Inquisition and Bioware is the ability to throw sand in your eyes. The quality of this game, no matter my own opinion, will be tested by time. Will people come back to play Dragon Age Inquisition, like they do Origins, Morrowind, Skyrim etc.
2. There is a lack of originality to the structure of the dlc. A lot of ideas and even shots were reused. Not particularly a bad thing, but joking aside The inquisitor and the crew starring at Normandy sorry the Breach at the end really bothered me.
3. The Writing is there, however nowhere as good as it used to be. Self referential jokes personally take me out of the game. Overuse of curse words and sexuality defining the characters, or non characters is something of a new thing for Bioware. (thats not a critisim to do with this dlc)

The Future.

It seems bright. Mass Effect 3 was a huge misstep which sent Bioware plummeting towards Oblivion, yet with everything they done so far they have been clawing their way out. I will not call Inquisition a good game, a mediocre at best. However that was a good DLC and if they can keep on improving, the next game could be good and dare I say special.


So My predictions for the future:

Dragon Age 4 - Tevinter v Qunari War which has Solas as the main main bad guy. The Elven city is in the Tevinter Imperium After all
Dragon Age 5 the next blight or at least the warden conflict of Anderfells.

Actually, DA4 could possibly be twice as big as DAI was, since it won't be shackled to Last Gen consoles. They might add The Anderfells into the mix with it.

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35 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:01 pm

I dont think they can handle a game that big, because its just too much for one game.

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36 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:15 pm

I remember the times when a game was complete upon release. Now we get a shell ending to be added on to with paid DLC later?

DAO was a complete experience on its own that left room for a sequal. Has Bioware lost interest in writing stories with a beginning middle and end? Or is it just the nature of the industry to do this sort of thing?


I for one do not like the concept that to get the "full" ending I have to pay more money months after finishing DAI. I paid 60 bucks and now I'm expected to toss out MORE to get the complete ending?

All other DLC have been supplementary. This is actually needed to set things straight. Screw this. I'm not playing the DLC game anymore.

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37 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:06 pm

JudgeSpektre wrote:I remember the times when a game was complete upon release. Now we get a shell ending to be added on to with paid DLC later?

DAO was a complete experience on its own that left room for a sequal. Has Bioware lost interest in writing stories with a beginning middle and end? Or is it just the nature of the industry to do this sort of thing?


I for one do not like the concept that to get the "full" ending I have to pay more money months after finishing DAI. I paid 60 bucks and now I'm expected to toss out MORE to get the complete ending?

All other DLC have been supplementary. This is actually needed to set things straight. Screw this. I'm not playing the DLC game anymore.

Well you don't have to. Personally I would rather pay for an ending crafted from 8 months of player Feedback than risk getting ME3 again. But that's just me. I would be perfectly content with Bioware making Epilogue DLCs standard practice.

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38 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:26 pm

And pay for the privilege? That's supposed to make sense? From a business point of view I get it. But from a customer perspective I expect to get a complete ending for 60 bucks.

I'm fine with DLC that just adds other short stories to the mix. Not one that is more or less required to complete a story. Not for money at least.

And on a side note: its been years since ME3's ending debacle. It's hardly the standard for game endings. The bulk are complete upon release and don't need to resort to tactics like this.


It's shady to me. If you dig it more power to you. Not attacking anyone.

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39 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:55 pm

JudgeSpektre wrote:And pay for the privilege? That's supposed to make sense? From a business point of view I get it. But from a customer perspective I expect to get a complete ending for 60 bucks.

I'm fine with DLC that just adds other short stories to the mix. Not one that is more or less required to complete a story. Not for money at least.

And on a side note: its been years since ME3's ending debacle. It's hardly the standard for game endings. The bulk are complete upon release and don't need to resort to tactics like this.


It's shady to me. If you dig it more power to you. Not attacking anyone.
Yes, ME3 was a long time ago. But Bioware has had problems with endings before ME3. KOTOR's Light Side ending is bad. DA2's ending was bad, ME3, of course, DAI had a bad ending before this, Baulder's Gate 2 didn't really end until the Expansion. This is not a new problem to Bioware. If Epilogue DLCs help prevent their endings from being bad in the future, I'm willing to pay that extra money.

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40 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:30 pm

Lamppost25 wrote:
JudgeSpektre wrote:And pay for the privilege? That's supposed to make sense? From a business point of view I get it. But from a customer perspective I expect to get a complete ending for 60 bucks.

I'm fine with DLC that just adds other short stories to the mix. Not one that is more or less required to complete a story. Not for money at least.

And on a side note: its been years since ME3's ending debacle. It's hardly the standard for game endings. The bulk are complete upon release and don't need to resort to tactics like this.


It's shady to me. If you dig it more power to you. Not attacking anyone.
Yes, ME3 was a long time ago. But Bioware has had problems with endings before ME3. KOTOR's Light Side ending is bad. DA2's ending was bad, ME3, of course, DAI had a bad ending before this, Baulder's Gate 2 didn't really end until the Expansion. This is not a new problem to Bioware. If Epilogue DLCs help prevent their endings from being bad in the future, I'm willing to pay that extra money.



I'll leave out my personal feelings on which of the above endings I found bad or not. Suffice to say I don't share the same opinion on all you listed.


Why does Bioware get a free pass on matters like this when others would be blasted for it? If they keep shooting themselves in the foot why continue to pay them to get right what could have been right in the first place?


IMO paying them will guarantee the cycles of bad endings has a chance to continue as they can always DLC their way out of it. Not buying could make them think twice and hopefully get their act together.

As stated its my opinion. It's my stance. Until I see their stories can stand without DLC propping them up...I'm done.

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41 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:59 am

JudgeSpektre wrote:
Lamppost25 wrote:
JudgeSpektre wrote:And pay for the privilege? That's supposed to make sense? From a business point of view I get it. But from a customer perspective I expect to get a complete ending for 60 bucks.

I'm fine with DLC that just adds other short stories to the mix. Not one that is more or less required to complete a story. Not for money at least.

And on a side note: its been years since ME3's ending debacle. It's hardly the standard for game endings. The bulk are complete upon release and don't need to resort to tactics like this.


It's shady to me. If you dig it more power to you. Not attacking anyone.
Yes, ME3 was a long time ago. But Bioware has had problems with endings before ME3. KOTOR's Light Side ending is bad. DA2's ending was bad, ME3, of course, DAI had a bad ending before this, Baulder's Gate 2 didn't really end until the Expansion. This is not a new problem to Bioware. If Epilogue DLCs help prevent their endings from being bad in the future, I'm willing to pay that extra money.



I'll leave out my personal feelings on which of the above endings I found bad or not. Suffice to say I don't share the same opinion on all you listed.


Why does Bioware get a free pass on matters like this when others would be blasted for it? If they keep shooting themselves in the foot why continue to pay them to get right what could have been right in the first place?


IMO paying them will guarantee the cycles of bad endings has a chance to continue as they can always DLC their way out of it. Not buying could make them think twice and hopefully get their act together.

As stated its my opinion. It's my stance. Until I see their stories can stand without DLC propping them up...I'm done.

What would be an ideal solution, that no matter how good or bad the original ending was, we get a free epilogue DLC when it makes sense. It did made sense in this case where the question what to do with inquisition arises. PLus by the time of making an epilogue DLC the company may have a better understanding of what they are planning to do with a sequel and thus it could be a great transition.

However fact of the matter, whether you like it or not, is that unlike say making point lookout which gives a side story, No scrap that. Lair of the Shadow Broker is the missing piece from Mass Effect 2. The complete versions of the game are far superior because they already have the Lair of the Shadow Broker in. And complete version cost the same as Mass Effect 2 at release. Hence, ideally LOTSB should have been free.

Kasumi on the other hand is an extra companion and has her own side story which does not detract from experience if it is not present in the base game.

In case of Inquisition, there is effectively no ending. At very least the base game should be cheaper. But its EA and its business, so I guess it makes it right.

Ultimately its case by case basis.

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42 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:31 am

OmegaSpruz wrote:
3. The Writing is there, however nowhere as good as it used to be. Self referential jokes personally take me out of the game. Overuse of curse words and sexuality defining the characters, or non characters is something of a new thing for Bioware. (thats not a critisim to do with this dlc)

I am not sure how to feel about the curse words. If they had established a said language in Dragon Age Origins i wouldn't have had a problem with it. Like in The Witcher, the F word has been used the entire franchise so it is there and part of the language. In Dragon Age it just came out of nowhere and it is used abit to much. Also the tone change of the franchise has been drastic since DA:O, key members left the team and Mike Laidlaw wants his spin on it. And now with a new lead writer aswell it will probably change more.

I wish that Trespasser was a part of the main game, even if they had to push it back by another 6 months. Though it was well worth paying for and it now enhances any new save i am going to start and i will play it multiple times, it sort of had everything i wanted from DA:I in terms of personal and political conflict. I get that they choose the safe story for DA:I to get back on track with the franchise. Atleast Trespasser has renewed my faith in the franchise and the team.

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43 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:01 pm

As I said it's shady. They can cobble together whatever they want and fill in missing pieces later with paid DLC. No thanks. Finish the game before you release it. Is that too much to be expected these days?


Why is this a problem almost exclusively related to Bioware? I'm not buying an incomplete game and then buying the "real ending". I can't understand why anyone would go alone with lunacy like this.

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44 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:25 pm

I wouldn't say they get a free pass with it, tons of the old fans have left for alot of reasons. EA beeing one of those reasons. I just don't care enough to boycott something i like. I know one should have principles, but if they stand in the way of potential joy and participation in great art then why oh why would i make myself less happy?

Also Trepasser development started after Jaws of Hakkon so its safe to say that if anything was cut from the main game it was Hakkon. Though like i said the game should have been pushed back, but EA is in charge. They decide the release date, what content should be sold for money etc. Nothing Bioware can do about that.

Is this exclusive to Bioware? The Witcher 3 had an average ending, and act 3 there was severly cut because of budget constraints, the difference is no EA so it can be released for free in an Enhanced Edition. Happened with TW2 aswell, the game didn't feel complete until EE.

Anyway i am rambling. Trespasser is amazing though Very Happy

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45 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:14 pm

I'm simply able to take a step back and look at the big picture and see how this cycle is bad in the long run. If a game isn't complete upon release and needs ending DLC then something is rotten in Denmark. Even more so if it's paid DLC.

Bioware seems to have lost their ability (or interest) in telling a full story with a beginning middle and end out of the gate. If its content that is essential to the experience that I HAVE to buy or miss out on important details that's bullshit. I don't support shady business practices.

If anything Bioware are ensuring that I will skip their future games altogether. Or at most buy them used. The reason for the latter should be obvious. Is that a jerk move? Sure. I'm done being Bioware's cash cow. Not a penny more of my money will line their pockets until something changes.

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46 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:34 pm

JudgeSpektre wrote:As I said it's shady. They can cobble together whatever they want and fill in missing pieces later with paid DLC. No thanks. Finish the game before you release it. Is that too much to be expected these days?


Why is this a problem almost exclusively related to Bioware? I'm not buying an incomplete game and then buying the "real ending". I can't understand why anyone would go alone with lunacy like this.

But DA:I was a complete game, it had a definite conclusion. Trespassers is more of a sequel than an ending, it expands on the lore but nothing you learn here is critical to the plot of the main game.

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47 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:01 pm

If by conclusion you mean "rushed and anticlimactic" then yes. Many others will tell you the same. The ending was barely there. Ieft more questions than answers. The closing epilogue by Morrigan ( just about all I can remember her doing in the game come to think of it) was vague as all hell.

If I got into DA4 without playing the DLC there's a plus chance that context for certain characters and events will be missing or half explained. They could have just saved this for the sequal.

I'm hard pressed to believe they'd have released this epilogue DLC if fans hadn't felt the base ending was lacking.


Write a good ending out of the gate and DLC like this won't be needed. I'm honestly wondering if Bioware has any plan for DA. The longer it goes the more I feel like they're pulling things out of their assess.

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48 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:20 pm

JudgeSpektre wrote:If by conclusion you mean "rushed and anticlimactic" then yes. Many others will tell you the same. The ending was barely there. Ieft more questions than answers. The closing epilogue by Morrigan ( just about all I can remember her doing in the game come to think of it) was vague as all hell.

I'd say that the problem with DA:I wasn't so much a rushed ending, but a rushed climax. The game would have benefited from some build up between the temple of Mythal and the final battle, but that's more of a pacing issue than a matter of missing content. I was satisfied with the ending but YMMV I suppose.


JudgeSpektre wrote:If I got into DA4 without playing the DLC there's a plus chance that context for certain characters and events will be missing or half explained. They could have just saved this for the sequal.

Well yeah, but that's like watching Avengers and saying that you don't get the context of the characters unless you watch a whole movie for each of them.

JudgeSpektre wrote:I'm hard pressed to believe they'd have released this epilogue DLC if fans hadn't felt the base ending was lacking.

I've noticed that people generally get more excited about story DLC when it's post-game. It moves the story forward, and therefore it "matters" more. The dlc isn't exactly light on the fan service so I'm not surprised they took such a common request into account.

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49 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:56 pm

LaPetitBaguette wrote:
JudgeSpektre wrote:If by conclusion you mean "rushed and anticlimactic" then yes. Many others will tell you the same. The ending was barely there. Ieft more questions than answers. The closing epilogue by Morrigan ( just about all I can remember her doing in the game come to think of it) was vague as all hell.

I'd say that the problem with DA:I wasn't so much a rushed ending, but a rushed climax. The game would have benefited from some build up between the temple of Mythal and the final battle, but that's more of a pacing issue than a matter of missing content. I was satisfied with the ending but YMMV I suppose.


JudgeSpektre wrote:If I got into DA4 without playing the DLC there's a plus chance that context for certain characters and events will be missing or half explained. They could have just saved this for the sequal.

Well yeah, but that's like watching Avengers and saying that you don't get the context of the characters unless you watch a whole movie for each of them.

JudgeSpektre wrote:I'm hard pressed to believe they'd have released this epilogue DLC if fans hadn't felt the base ending was lacking.

I've noticed that people generally get more excited about story DLC when it's post-game. It moves the story forward, and therefore it "matters" more. The dlc isn't exactly light on the fan service so I'm not surprised they took such a common request into account.



I've watched Avengers without wasting my time with the bulk of the individual leadup movies. It was fine. I didn't have any questions since they are all superheros I've known about for years. Besides..... Movies are not the same as video games.



How many examples can you cherry pick to validate that assertion? Because Bioware isn't a good source since the only DLC that was post game that I know of is Witch Hunt. And that wasn't very good.
Awakening was DAO 1.5.a stand alone expansion.

All other DLC minus the Extended Cut could be played at various points in their games.

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50 Re: Dragon Age Inquisition - Trespasser on Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:12 am

I've watched Avengers without wasting my time with the bulk of the individual leadup movies. It was fine. I didn't have any questions since they are all superheros I've known about for years. Besides..... Movies are not the same as video games.

Same difference though. You wouldn't say that the leadups detract from the movie, would you?

How many examples can you cherry pick to validate that assertion? Because Bioware isn't a good source since the only DLC that was post game that I know of is Witch Hunt. And that wasn't very good.
Awakening was DAO 1.5.a stand alone expansion. All other DLC minus the Extended Cut could be played at various points in their games.

This is more of an observation of what fan reaction, not what is actually produced.

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